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Post by maasart on Aug 19, 2024 20:02:49 GMT
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Post by claremont on Aug 19, 2024 20:11:05 GMT
wooo hoo. Complete salary cap dump and Harris was excess, deserves a chance to play. Unbelievable we also got a 2nd round pick. Now Laine could be a problem child but if he cannot light it up with the Habs, he's done in the NHL. 2 years at $8.7M - low risk IMO as the cap hit if he busts next year isn't insurmountable. If he does do well, then he is master of his own extension as a UFA>
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Post by ramcharger440 on Aug 19, 2024 20:18:42 GMT
Wow! got the player and a 2nd round pick....if Laine gets his groove back this could be huge for us! I feel like he will like coming to a hockey city that has a bit of a euro feel. At least we have a solid team off ice to help players along not like before with MB.
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Post by ramcharger440 on Aug 19, 2024 20:31:32 GMT
Imagine we leave the first line alone then next season he have Dach Laine and Demidov as our second line....... well we can all dream I for one can't wait to see how it all plays out! pretty much no matter what we just got better! Harris was pretty good but not a high impact player like Laine can be and we have so many spares at the position Harris was playing and the cherry on top is the 2nd round pick! we may have ended up losing one of our extra Dmen for that alone!
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Post by HTL on Aug 19, 2024 20:42:19 GMT
I like the gamble for what we gave up. Opens up a spot on a crowded D and the 2nd rounder is a bonus. Not crazy about having his total Cap hit but it's managable for 2 years.
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Post by maasart on Aug 19, 2024 20:57:49 GMT
wooo hoo. Complete salary cap dump and Harris was excess, deserves a chance to play. Unbelievable we also got a 2nd round pick. Now Laine could be a problem child but if he cannot light it up with the Habs, he's done in the NHL. 2 years at $8.7M - low risk IMO as the cap hit if he busts next year isn't insurmountable. If he does do well, then he is master of his own extension as a UFA> Agree. Columbus got a quality #4-6 dman but we got potentially a 1st line player. He needed a change of scenery, Harris needed a chance to play - its good for everyone. My guess is that Hughes wanted a 1 for 1 but wanted Columbus to retain salary & the 2nd was a sweetener because they wouldnt.
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Post by habulator on Aug 19, 2024 21:05:05 GMT
This is a potential "knock it out of the park" deal for us. Obviously it also comes with quite a bit of risk. For two years at most, and the potential that this brings to our PP - I would say that I'm happy about this trade. It just shows though how much Laine's stock has fallen.
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Post by claremont on Aug 19, 2024 21:09:11 GMT
wooo hoo. Complete salary cap dump and Harris was excess, deserves a chance to play. Unbelievable we also got a 2nd round pick. Now Laine could be a problem child but if he cannot light it up with the Habs, he's done in the NHL. 2 years at $8.7M - low risk IMO as the cap hit if he busts next year isn't insurmountable. If he does do well, then he is master of his own extension as a UFA> Agree. Columbus got a quality #4-6 dman but we got potentially a 1st line player. He needed a change of scenery, Harris needed a chance to play - its good for everyone. My guess is that Hughes wanted a 1 for 1 but wanted Columbus to retain salary & the 2nd was a sweetener because they wouldnt. Certainly. Also opens up a 2nd spot on the PP2 unit. Both Caufield and Laine are LW's Right hand shot. Have to figure Caufield has the PP1 left side - 1/2 wall, and Laine is on the PP2 unit - same spot. Doubt one of them moves back to LHD Matheson spot. Just a top 6 with Caufield Suzuki Slaf, and then Laine, Newhook / Dach looks a lot better. 3rd line Roy, DVO, Andy / Gally may not be too shabby. 4th line Beck / Evans at centre, Andy / Gally RW - there will be come competition for Armia, Barre-Boulet, Heineman. I am not sure Pezzetta makes this team.
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RCAF48
Captain Kirk
Posts: 359
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Post by RCAF48 on Aug 19, 2024 21:28:04 GMT
Harris for a second rounder to free a roster spot for one of our Dmen prospects............not a terrible move. Accepting Laine as a throw in to make the deal work is OK for now. If he stays healthy and decides to stay interested until the TD it may work out for us.
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Post by jenniferrocket on Aug 19, 2024 21:35:54 GMT
I cannot believe we got a second rounder as well. I feel like Hughes won this trade BIG time. There's some risk, but it's only two years, and we gave up very little for possible huge upside.
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rkgoalie
Little Viking
If it was easy, it would not be fun
Posts: 85
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Post by rkgoalie on Aug 19, 2024 21:39:19 GMT
love it.
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Post by HTL on Aug 19, 2024 21:39:58 GMT
Well,,,quite a few of us believed Harris was the guy we were going to trade this off season and i don't think anybody expected more than a second rounder for him. It's for 2026 but it could be a reasonably high pick the way Columbus is trending. I think we got full value for him, so basically we're taking on Laine's contract for nothing but Cap space which we can afford to gamble with.
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Post by maasart on Aug 19, 2024 21:57:39 GMT
I cannot believe we got a second rounder as well. I feel like Hughes won this trade BIG time. There's some risk, but it's only two years, and we gave up very little for possible huge upside. agree. Its a shock but i know that Hughes has been very clear that he believes cap space is worth a lot. Laine is vastly overpaid based on last year but historically he's shown he's an elite player. If he can bounce back this is the steal of the century.
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rkgoalie
Little Viking
If it was easy, it would not be fun
Posts: 85
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Post by rkgoalie on Aug 19, 2024 22:12:21 GMT
if laine is going to grow up and is done with his substance abuse issue Hughes got our habs a great deal, safe bet they had a long talk with laine before they pulled off this trade
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Aug 19, 2024 22:26:11 GMT
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Post by ramcharger440 on Aug 19, 2024 22:52:48 GMT
Oh man you have to go watch that video and check out the subtitles! too funny!
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Post by HTL on Aug 19, 2024 22:53:15 GMT
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Post by BigTed3 on Aug 19, 2024 22:54:22 GMT
This is an interesting trade. In my view, Harris was worth a 2nd rounder on his own. If you trade an established young NHL defenceman who appears to be a #4-5 guy, that's roughly the market for that type of asset. The Athletic says he's a giant bargain right now because his stats suggest a worth of about 3.4M and he's only making 1.4M. So in that regard, Columbus gets a serviceable D man on the cheap. The 2nd rounder is probably fair game for this, and the odds the 2nd rounder becomes as good as Harris or better is likely in the 10% range, so it's not good odds for us, but conversely, we knew we had to move a LHD and this helps to open up roster space. So that's that. I see the Harris for a 2nd rounder as a bit of a wash.
To me, the trade then becomes Laine the player in exchange for taking on Laine's contract. I don't like that part as much, for reasons I've talked about before. According to The Athletic, Laine's expected output (if you put aside the injury and mental health issues) equates to value of about 6.6M. So we're overpaying here by over 2M for two consecutive years. That means that on his own, even if Laine plays to his expected value, we still took on about 4.2M of cap hit for nothing, and by previous NHL trade standards, that probably should have brought back a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder on its own. So IMO, not good value on the cap management for us.
Now I think the obvious fan reaction is that we just acquired a scorer with a high upside without giving up anything that important. So I think the superficial way of looking at this trade is to say that it's a clear win for that reason. But I can't emphasize enough how much cap space is worth in today's NHL. And giving up 17.4M in cap space over two years is a big one for me. Are we getting the same value here that we are from paying a Suzuki, a Caufield, or a Slafkovsky? That's certainly a big question. I'd have a hard time believing Laine will be as complete a player, though I do think his potential to score goals in probably a bit higher than the others. But then past that, the next question is, what happens if he does play to his value? He's signed for two years, and we're not likely to be a Cup challenger in those two years. So what happens after that? If he has a career resurgence, are we going to be willing to pay him 9-10M a year on a longterm deal thereafter, or are we letting him walk as a UFA or trading him at that point? If he plays average hockey, then maybe we can re-sign him for cheaper, but then how much does that help us to sign a 20-goal scorer? Now add in the injury history and the mental health issues and there are a decent number of risks here.
Ultimately, I think there is big upside potential here, which is the exciting part. I think this trade probably results in our PP being better and in our team moving up the standings by a few points. But the big picture is that I'm not sure how much that helps us. The goal is not necessarily to be 4-5 points better this year and next and then to make a big payout in two years or lose him when we want to be hitting our contention years. So I like the fit for the player: big guy with offensive skill who could have a resurgence playing for a player's coach in a hockey city. I'm less sold on the plan surrounding where this goes. I would have liked the trade better if Laine were signed to 4-5 years at 6M or if we had sent Anderson back the other way. I get that it's hard not to be excited about adding scoring punch, but I think we should have gotten more back for the amount of cap we took on.
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Post by jenniferrocket on Aug 19, 2024 23:12:12 GMT
What I like the most about the deal is Hughes being able to capably trade one of our many young defenders for scoring depth. Marc Bergevin, eat your heat out. #tradesarehard
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Post by maasart on Aug 19, 2024 23:22:37 GMT
This is an interesting trade. In my view, Harris was worth a 2nd rounder on his own. If you trade an established young NHL defenceman who appears to be a #4-5 guy, that's roughly the market for that type of asset. The Athletic says he's a giant bargain right now because his stats suggest a worth of about 3.4M and he's only making 1.4M. So in that regard, Columbus gets a serviceable D man on the cheap. The 2nd rounder is probably fair game for this, and the odds the 2nd rounder becomes as good as Harris or better is likely in the 10% range, so it's not good odds for us, but conversely, we knew we had to move a LHD and this helps to open up roster space. So that's that. I see the Harris for a 2nd rounder as a bit of a wash. To me, the trade then becomes Laine the player in exchange for taking on Laine's contract. I don't like that part as much, for reasons I've talked about before. According to The Athletic, Laine's expected output (if you put aside the injury and mental health issues) equates to value of about 6.6M. So we're overpaying here by over 2M for two consecutive years. That means that on his own, even if Laine plays to his expected value, we still took on about 4.2M of cap hit for nothing, and by previous NHL trade standards, that probably should have brought back a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder on its own. So IMO, not good value on the cap management for us. Now I think the obvious fan reaction is that we just acquired a scorer with a high upside without giving up anything that important. So I think the superficial way of looking at this trade is to say that it's a clear win for that reason. But I can't emphasize enough how much cap space is worth in today's NHL. And giving up 17.4M in cap space over two years is a big one for me. Are we getting the same value here that we are from paying a Suzuki, a Caufield, or a Slafkovsky? That's certainly a big question. I'd have a hard time believing Laine will be as complete a player, though I do think his potential to score goals in probably a bit higher than the others. But then past that, the next question is, what happens if he does play to his value? He's signed for two years, and we're not likely to be a Cup challenger in those two years. So what happens after that? If he has a career resurgence, are we going to be willing to pay him 9-10M a year on a longterm deal thereafter, or are we letting him walk as a UFA or trading him at that point? If he plays average hockey, then maybe we can re-sign him for cheaper, but then how much does that help us to sign a 20-goal scorer? Now add in the injury history and the mental health issues and there are a decent number of risks here. Ultimately, I think there is big upside potential here, which is the exciting part. I think this trade probably results in our PP being better and in our team moving up the standings by a few points. But the big picture is that I'm not sure how much that helps us. The goal is not necessarily to be 4-5 points better this year and next and then to make a big payout in two years or lose him when we want to be hitting our contention years. So I like the fit for the player: big guy with offensive skill who could have a resurgence playing for a player's coach in a hockey city. I'm less sold on the plan surrounding where this goes. I would have liked the trade better if Laine were signed to 4-5 years at 6M or if we had sent Anderson back the other way. I get that it's hard not to be excited about adding scoring punch, but I think we should have gotten more back for the amount of cap we took on. Always debbie downer (Just kidding my friend i know, you're actually the voice of reason generally). The one thing I would note about the bolded part is that at 26 its not unfathomable that they athletic's projection is wrong - especially with a change of scenery. If we look at Laine's production it tells a very different story in Winnipeg than it does is columbus: 2016-17 Winnipeg Jets NHL 73 36 28 64 26 7 -- -- -- -- -- 2017-18 Winnipeg Jets NHL 82 44 26 70 24 8 17 5 7 12 4 2018-19 Winnipeg Jets NHL 82 30 20 50 42 -24 6 3 1 4 0 2019-20 Winnipeg Jets NHL 68 28 35 63 22 8 1 0 0 0 0 2020-21 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 45 10 11 21 21 -29 -- -- -- -- -- 2021-22 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 56 26 30 56 24 -7 -- -- -- -- -- 2022-23 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 55 22 30 52 16 -12 -- -- -- -- -- 2023-24 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 18 6 3 9 6 In columbus he was a 20-25 goal scorer, close to a point per game (2 of the 4 years at least) but in winnipeg he was a 30-40 goal scorer, PPG - and much healthier - player. I think there's slim legit chance he's the best player on our roster next year (he has that potential) but at very least he'll have a good shot to be one of our 5-6 best players and adding that for a good player who was a victim of the numbers game because we're strong at his position... thats a great move imho.
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