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Post by maasart on Apr 29, 2024 16:38:45 GMT
👆 It would be a bonus if Management can move any of these three guys Anderson even in a good year for him is just a 30 point player Dvorak has missed 52, 18, 26, 26, games the last 4 years Gallagher may have come on as the season progressed but it doesn’t negate that he sucked for most of the year and he’s getting older not better There has to be some body that can replace any of the above 3 at considerably less salary . Agree although the order in which i would trade them may have changed from this time last year. 1st & foremost I want Anderson gone. He has a tantalizing combination of skill and speed but never seems to do anything with it. I dont blame MB on this one, it was a good, sound, logical move.... it just didnt work out. I think he'll be an anchor on any line we play him on & I think he's going to clog up the middle six of this roster. 2nd Id move Dvo. He's a decent, middle of the road player but as you mentioned, often injured. I think him being on the roster means that Beck doesnt get a chance (he might not be ready, mind you) but a bigger issue would be Newhook who i think may actually be a perfect fit for 3rd line centre. More on that below 3rd... suprisingly, is Gallagher. I have been screaming to trade Gallagher for years (and id absolutely do it if there was an opportunity) but i think we have other guys who may be more important to move. The Newhook-Gallagher combo was really really effective for the last 3rd of the year. Id like to see what a whole year of Gallagher-Newhook-Armia looks like & I think we might be pleasantly surprised, especially if they have quality players on the top 2 lines ahead of them. Again, that likely means no room for either Dvo or Evans except the 4th line so one would likely have to be moved.
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Post by BigTed3 on Apr 30, 2024 1:09:44 GMT
👆 It would be a bonus if Management can move any of these three guys Anderson even in a good year for him is just a 30 point player Dvorak has missed 52, 18, 26, 26, games the last 4 years Gallagher may have come on as the season progressed but it doesn’t negate that he sucked for most of the year and he’s getting older not better There has to be some body that can replace any of the above 3 at considerably less salary . Agree although the order in which i would trade them may have changed from this time last year. 1st & foremost I want Anderson gone. He has a tantalizing combination of skill and speed but never seems to do anything with it. I dont blame MB on this one, it was a good, sound, logical move.... it just didnt work out. I think he'll be an anchor on any line we play him on & I think he's going to clog up the middle six of this roster. 2nd Id move Dvo. He's a decent, middle of the road player but as you mentioned, often injured. I think him being on the roster means that Beck doesnt get a chance (he might not be ready, mind you) but a bigger issue would be Newhook who i think may actually be a perfect fit for 3rd line centre. More on that below 3rd... suprisingly, is Gallagher. I have been screaming to trade Gallagher for years (and id absolutely do it if there was an opportunity) but i think we have other guys who may be more important to move. The Newhook-Gallagher combo was really really effective for the last 3rd of the year. Id like to see what a whole year of Gallagher-Newhook-Armia looks like & I think we might be pleasantly surprised, especially if they have quality players on the top 2 lines ahead of them. Again, that likely means no room for either Dvo or Evans except the 4th line so one would likely have to be moved. For the same money and on a short-term deal, then sure, Gallagher could have more value than the other two. But if I had a genie's wish to get out of one of those three contracts for free, Gallagher would be my first choice. Anderson would be my second. Dvorak is going into the last year of his deal, so at this point, that issue will take care of itself sooner rather than later. If he gets hurt for the year again, then he costs us nothing. If he has a decent year, maybe we recoup something at the deadline. If he plays terribly and we bury him in the minors, then the cap pain is short-lived. There are options there.
Gallagher played well in the second half of the year, but I don't want to get caught up in recency bias here. His first half was awful, not necessarily by virtue of what he did not did not do with the puck, but just by virtue of the fact he took so many bad penalties and couldn't establish himself as a useful player (more negative impact than positive impact). Like you, I think he could still provide some value next year and maybe even the one after that, but that value will never come close to his actual contract. And he's had a ton of major injuries in his career, so I'm also concerned about whether he can stay healthy enough over the rest of his contract and whether he hides things from the training staff and just plays ineffectively instead of sitting. So I think there's a lot of risk with Gallagher, and I would not in the least hold onto his contract over Dvorak's. Gallagher vs. Anderson is more debatable. Anderson was terrible last year, worse than Gallagher. But there's a chance of a rebound there next year too. He still has size and speed and some scoring ability, and he spent this year finding his game after an injury ended his year a season ago. I would dump his contract too if I could, but it's still a bit cheaper than Gallagher's for the same amount of term and Anderson is a couple of years younger. So both bad, but I'm not ready to declare Gallagher's career as resurrected, and his age and AAV have to be factored into this equation.
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Post by maasart on Apr 30, 2024 23:09:54 GMT
Agree although the order in which i would trade them may have changed from this time last year. 1st & foremost I want Anderson gone. He has a tantalizing combination of skill and speed but never seems to do anything with it. I dont blame MB on this one, it was a good, sound, logical move.... it just didnt work out. I think he'll be an anchor on any line we play him on & I think he's going to clog up the middle six of this roster. 2nd Id move Dvo. He's a decent, middle of the road player but as you mentioned, often injured. I think him being on the roster means that Beck doesnt get a chance (he might not be ready, mind you) but a bigger issue would be Newhook who i think may actually be a perfect fit for 3rd line centre. More on that below 3rd... suprisingly, is Gallagher. I have been screaming to trade Gallagher for years (and id absolutely do it if there was an opportunity) but i think we have other guys who may be more important to move. The Newhook-Gallagher combo was really really effective for the last 3rd of the year. Id like to see what a whole year of Gallagher-Newhook-Armia looks like & I think we might be pleasantly surprised, especially if they have quality players on the top 2 lines ahead of them. Again, that likely means no room for either Dvo or Evans except the 4th line so one would likely have to be moved. For the same money and on a short-term deal, then sure, Gallagher could have more value than the other two. But if I had a genie's wish to get out of one of those three contracts for free, Gallagher would be my first choice. Anderson would be my second. Dvorak is going into the last year of his deal, so at this point, that issue will take care of itself sooner rather than later. If he gets hurt for the year again, then he costs us nothing. If he has a decent year, maybe we recoup something at the deadline. If he plays terribly and we bury him in the minors, then the cap pain is short-lived. There are options there.
Gallagher played well in the second half of the year, but I don't want to get caught up in recency bias here. His first half was awful, not necessarily by virtue of what he did not did not do with the puck, but just by virtue of the fact he took so many bad penalties and couldn't establish himself as a useful player (more negative impact than positive impact). Like you, I think he could still provide some value next year and maybe even the one after that, but that value will never come close to his actual contract. And he's had a ton of major injuries in his career, so I'm also concerned about whether he can stay healthy enough over the rest of his contract and whether he hides things from the training staff and just plays ineffectively instead of sitting. So I think there's a lot of risk with Gallagher, and I would not in the least hold onto his contract over Dvorak's. Gallagher vs. Anderson is more debatable. Anderson was terrible last year, worse than Gallagher. But there's a chance of a rebound there next year too. He still has size and speed and some scoring ability, and he spent this year finding his game after an injury ended his year a season ago. I would dump his contract too if I could, but it's still a bit cheaper than Gallagher's for the same amount of term and Anderson is a couple of years younger. So both bad, but I'm not ready to declare Gallagher's career as resurrected, and his age and AAV have to be factored into this equation.
Yeah, you're right. Definitely recency bias. Ive always had a soft-spot for gallagher, dumb penalties & all. He's the little-engine that could and it seemed like his production was nil, with a $6.5m cap hit & 3 more years to go.. and then he got put toghether with Armia & Newhook & we suddenly had an effective trio. I dont know if it was lightning in a bottle, an aberration - or if those 3 will even be together net year - but the chances of him sustaining the play he had for the last 1/4 of the year (14 points in his last 20 games or so) are probably pretty slim.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Apr 30, 2024 23:17:31 GMT
👆 Well Armia is gone after next year , or maybe sooner , so……🤷♂️
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Post by maasart on May 2, 2024 16:31:27 GMT
👆 Well Armia is gone after next year , or maybe sooner , so……🤷♂️ Before the turn around this year id agree. But he's always been a coach-favourite even if he's frustrating (at times) to watch as a fan. This year he put it all together so i could see them offering him a year or two next year if we dont trade him. There's also a chance he decides to go back to Europe. Id still say its likely 70-80% chance he's not with the team after next season but i wouldn't close the door as i would have this year at christmas.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jul 13, 2024 18:18:48 GMT
With Capfriendly gone, Puckpedia is the next best thing as a replacement, and they have an armchair GM part of their site, which I played around with. Made the following roster moves:
- Signed Xhekaj, 2 years at 1.75M AAV - Traded Dvorak to the Red Wings for a 3rd round pick - Traded Anderson, Mesar, Barron, and the Calgary 2025 1st rounder (top 10 protected should both Cgy and Fla falter this year) to Columbus for Kent Johnson and Ivan Provorov. - Signed Johnson, 3 years at 2.05M AAV - Left Hutson and Struble in the minors to start the year
This left me with
Caufield-Suzuki-Slafkovsky Johnson-Dach-Roy Heineman-Newhook-Armia Evans-Beck-Gallagher RHP, Barre-Boulet
Matheson-Guhle Provorov-Savard Xkehaj-Mailloux Harris
Montemebeault Primeau
and 9.16M in cap space.
Not sure how that Anderson trade would fly in real life but the app accepted it, and Clb is one of the few teams reported to actually be interested in Anderson as a player. By taking back Provorov (a guy Clb has been rumored to be looking to trade for a while), the salaries work out. We give up a 1st rounder and two young pieces as part of the deal that brings Johnson back as well. Still cap room to bring in someone else via trade or save the money for free agency next year, and it sets us up to be able to trade Provorov and Savard at the deadline, giving roster spots for Hutson and one of Reinbacher or Struble by the trade deadline.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Jul 13, 2024 20:02:52 GMT
I keep seeing heineman being pencilled into suggested lineups I would not be the least bit surprised to see Barre Boulet in before him Heineman was traded by the team that drafted him ( Florida ) to Calgary , then calgary traded him to Montreal I’m not very confident in his future as an NHL er
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Post by BigTed3 on Jul 13, 2024 21:55:22 GMT
I keep seeing heineman being pencilled into suggested lineups I would not be the least bit surprised to see Barre Boulet in before him Heineman was traded by the team that drafted him ( Florida ) to Calgary , then calgary traded him to Montreal I’m not very confident in his future as an NHL er Meh. Also traded before they ever played a game in the NHL... our very own Nick Suzuki and Ken Dryden, Peter Forsberg, Filip Forsberg, Jarome Iginla, Ryan McDonagh, Tuukka Rask, Cutter Gauthier, Adam Fox (traded twice, just like Heineman), etc. Other guys were traded after playing a few games for the team that drafted them... Sergachev, Tage Thompson, Lars Eller, Rick Vaive, Dominik Hasek, Roberto Luongo to name a few. This isn't like Heineman was released by two teams like Zadina. He was traded for those teams to recoup other assets, and we could also say there were three different GMs who wanted Heineman. The bottom line is that while it's unlikely Heineman turns into a star, he still has middle 6 potential, and the fact he's been traded doesn't mean he has no value. We somewhat know what Barre-Boulet will bring, Heineman is more of an unknown. If we were looking for a 4th liner, then yes, maybe BB gets the nod. If we want someone who can move up and down the line-up, Heineman has more chance of that and he brings some size too. Also important to note that Heineman will require waivers next season, so we have this year to make a decision on him and whether he's an NHLer.
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RCAF48
Captain Kirk
Posts: 359
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Post by RCAF48 on Jul 13, 2024 22:10:55 GMT
Heineman is this year's Ylonen.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Jul 13, 2024 23:32:37 GMT
🤣 What do I know ? Absolutely nothing 🙅♂️
Like years ago I figured neither Primeau or Sammy M would be nhl goalies ….that didn’t turn out well for me
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Post by claremont on Jul 13, 2024 23:45:47 GMT
With Capfriendly gone, Puckpedia is the next best thing as a replacement, and they have an armchair GM part of their site, which I played around with. Made the following roster moves: - Signed Xhekaj, 2 years at 1.75M AAV - Traded Dvorak to the Red Wings for a 3rd round pick - Traded Anderson, Mesar, Barron, and the Calgary 2025 1st rounder (top 10 protected should both Cgy and Fla falter this year) to Columbus for Kent Johnson and Ivan Provorov. - Signed Johnson, 3 years at 2.05M AAV - Left Hutson and Struble in the minors to start the year This left me with Caufield-Suzuki-Slafkovsky Johnson-Dach-Roy Heineman-Newhook-Armia Evans-Beck-Gallagher RHP, Barre-Boulet Matheson-Guhle Provorov-Savard Xkehaj-Mailloux Harris Montemebeault Primeau and 9.16M in cap space. Not sure how that Anderson trade would fly in real life but the app accepted it, and Clb is one of the few teams reported to actually be interested in Anderson as a player. By taking back Provorov (a guy Clb has been rumored to be looking to trade for a while), the salaries work out. We give up a 1st rounder and two young pieces as part of the deal that brings Johnson back as well. Still cap room to bring in someone else via trade or save the money for free agency next year, and it sets us up to be able to trade Provorov and Savard at the deadline, giving roster spots for Hutson and one of Reinbacher or Struble by the trade deadline. Thanks for that - I’ll play around with it. Dvorak for a mid 3rd rounder seems light - I like most hab fans would value him a little higher, and we’d be selling him on the low - would rather wait until the trade deadline and hope he is motivated to play well for next year’s contract. I realize you have to give up some assets to get something - Kent Johnson is your marquee player but the 1 year expiring Provorov contract Plus a Barron or Mesar Is probably the price you pay for getting rid of Josh Anderson’s term and contract. I’d feel better if we just solo acquired Johnson for Mesar and the 1st rounder - Columbus doesn’t need a Barron and we don’t really need a LHD for 1 year.
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Post by claremont on Jul 14, 2024 14:28:16 GMT
Here would be my assessment of our trade chips / value, (1 being low value, 10 being high relative to others in our assets and not the league) and whether I would move them or not Filip Mesar 4 - small but quick 1st round prospect, a handful of picks in his range have showed some more promise. We would be trading him at low value before he has had much chance to prove himself. Hold onto him unless unreal offer
2025 Late 1st round pick Florida - 6 – Our prospect pool is fairly deep and next year’s draft is supposed to be forward heavy. Why do we need a another middle 6 forward? Given some of our roster players on expiring contracts, likely we replace this pick with 2nd round or 3rd round picks (See Savard, Armia, Dvorak, Evans). I would be dangling this to a team that may need more draft picks.
Savard - 8 – Minute munching defensemen coming off a solid season, reasonable cap hit. We could get away with Guhle, Mailloux, Barron, Harris if we had to, while Reinbacher develops. I would be trying to move him.
Matheson – 10. Would bring the most value at his cap hit and prior season accomplishments. Would have to be for a blockbuster top 6 forward. I would move him only for a high value impact roster player and not a hope for a rebound player with a potential ceiling.
Armia – 5. Enigmatic power forward at a reasonable cap hit for what he brings to the table. Perhaps another winger on our team can make him redundant but not sure he fits with MSL style of play. Had a good 2nd half of the season but I am not convinced we would be selling him at the low. I would be trying to move him.
Dvorak – 4. Trading him prior to the season leaves a large void at centre, and we would be selling him at low value given his injury and performance in 2023-24. He is likely a trade deadline move.
Evans – 3 – Similar argument to Dvorak. Just would not fetch IMO as much value.
Barron – 3. Starting to get into that age range where he delivers or not. I believe we would be selling low on him which is not a good strategy, unless the player wants to be moved or someone bumps him out of ice time. I would hold onto him despite some defensive shortcomings, he has some offense.
Mailloux, Reinbacher, Beck and Hutson – 10 – They all have unproven upside and high ceilings. These are no trade prospects for me
Harris / Struble – 6, 4. Given our logjam at LHD, I would be actively showcasing these two to other teams.
Any players not listed are untouchables for me (Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Guhle, Xhekaj, Monty, Dach, Newhook) because of the dimensions they bring OR have low unproven value that nobody would want them (Gally, Anderson, Pezz, RHP) OR are just treadmill prospects not worth mentioning.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jul 14, 2024 14:28:49 GMT
With Capfriendly gone, Puckpedia is the next best thing as a replacement, and they have an armchair GM part of their site, which I played around with. Made the following roster moves: - Signed Xhekaj, 2 years at 1.75M AAV - Traded Dvorak to the Red Wings for a 3rd round pick - Traded Anderson, Mesar, Barron, and the Calgary 2025 1st rounder (top 10 protected should both Cgy and Fla falter this year) to Columbus for Kent Johnson and Ivan Provorov. - Signed Johnson, 3 years at 2.05M AAV - Left Hutson and Struble in the minors to start the year This left me with Caufield-Suzuki-Slafkovsky Johnson-Dach-Roy Heineman-Newhook-Armia Evans-Beck-Gallagher RHP, Barre-Boulet Matheson-Guhle Provorov-Savard Xkehaj-Mailloux Harris Montemebeault Primeau and 9.16M in cap space. Not sure how that Anderson trade would fly in real life but the app accepted it, and Clb is one of the few teams reported to actually be interested in Anderson as a player. By taking back Provorov (a guy Clb has been rumored to be looking to trade for a while), the salaries work out. We give up a 1st rounder and two young pieces as part of the deal that brings Johnson back as well. Still cap room to bring in someone else via trade or save the money for free agency next year, and it sets us up to be able to trade Provorov and Savard at the deadline, giving roster spots for Hutson and one of Reinbacher or Struble by the trade deadline. Thanks for that - I’ll play around with it. Dvorak for a mid 3rd rounder seems light - I like most hab fans would value him a little higher, and we’d be selling him on the low - would rather wait until the trade deadline and hope he is motivated to play well for next year’s contract. I realize you have to give up some assets to get something - Kent Johnson is your marquee player but the 1 year expiring Provorov contract Plus a Barron or Mesar Is probably the price you pay for getting rid of Josh Anderson’s term and contract. I’d feel better if we just solo acquired Johnson for Mesar and the 1st rounder - Columbus doesn’t need a Barron and we don’t really need a LHD for 1 year. 1. Dvorak likely has higher value at the trade deadline, I agree (so long as he puts together a reasonable, injury-free season). I think he still has value, especially to a playoff team if he's in the right seat as a 3C. The major deterrent is his salary, so the further along the season goes, the less the cap impact is. That said, I'm looking up and down the line-up and I can see value in being able to bring Beck into the line-up this year, so I think one of Dvorak or Evans has to go. Can play around with the value of what you would get, but ultimately, I thought a middle-of-the-3rd round pick was fair to be able to just wash our hands of him right away, generate some cap space, and make a roster spot for Beck.
2. Yes, we could look at making a smaller trade with Columbus. Johnson is the target here. Provorov is not a guy we need, but while we were dealing with them, Anderson is a guy who isn't a fit here but who is still a player rumored to be liked in Columbus. We know Waddell also had interest in him when he was GM in Carolina. So I can see them being a team that might consider bringing him in, even if they won't really pay to do that. To make the salaries work, we needed to take someone back, and Provorov is a player who has been on the outs in Columbus and who makes almost as much as Anderson. I get that we don't need a LHD, but Provorov has more value to us than Anderson and is on a shorter-term deal, so we would definitely be interested in making that swap. The price for that is giving up multiple pieces, including a 1st-round pick and two recent 1st rounders. So from our end, I see this as being a deal that brings back a potential top 6 piece in Johnson, even if he's under-performed in Columbus, as well as being able to move out a contract we don't want. We buy some cap flexibility in years 2 and 3 once Provorov is off the books, and we also get a trade chip for the deadline, when Provorov probably has more value. From Columbus' side of things, they dump two players who have been underwhelming for them and who don't seem to be in their plans in exchange for three assets that help their re-build and a player they think they can re-vitalize. The cap hits of Anderson + Barron vs. Johnson + Provorov are a wash for next year, and then Columbus ends up paying a bit more in years 2 and 3, hence why they are getting more assets out of the trade.
3. As far as the D corps if we make this deal, it forces Guhle to the right. It's a downside, sure. Harris becomes the 7th D man who can swing from left to right to fill in as needed for Xhekaj or Mailloux. Struble, Hutson, and Reinbacher are all waiver-exempt and start the year in the minors, which again, is fine by me. We'll be looking to trade both Savard and Provorov by the deadline anyways, so it gives them 40-50 games in the AHL and then the chance for 2 of them to finish the season in Montreal. And with injuries likely to happen before then, I'm almost certain we'll be running more than our top 7 in the NHL this year anyways.
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