regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on May 31, 2024 3:30:58 GMT
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on May 31, 2024 3:31:35 GMT
Bringing forward from the previous page 😃
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Post by maasart on May 31, 2024 17:00:26 GMT
Necas IS a guy id be interested in acquiring if the price is right - but more importantly - if he's willing to sign for a reasonable cap hit. I think he's clearly a top 6 forward. He's got good size (altough could stand to fill out more) and can play any forward position but seems more effective on the wing. he'd be a very nice add to our top 6 but i would not consider trading Hutson or Reinbacher for him. Mailloux im not sure about - it really comes down to what the team thinks they have in this player. The earlier suggestion in this thread for a Matheson for Necas swap makes more sense for both teams imho.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 3, 2024 18:49:04 GMT
Lots of smoke coming out in this Necas-Habs situation. Here are the highlights:
1. Frank Seravalli says he believes Necas will be traded this week, ahead of the draft. 2. Widely rumored the Canes want an established NHL defenceman as part of the deal. 3. Jordan Harris' parents have apparently stated that they don't believe Harris will be traded. The rumors are that Harris is a favorite of MSL's and that he prefers keeping Harris over Xhekaj, whereas Habs' management likes Xhekaj. But MSL is reportedly stepping up to bat for Harris. 4. JC Lajoie supports this theory and says he thinks the Habs intend on keeping Harris as an affordable 3rd-pairing player who can be a smart player and a leader on the team. He believes the Habs will trade Xhekaj and that it could be as early as this week. He says in his opinion, a Xhekaj plus draft pick (either the Jets' 1st or a 2nd rounder) could be on the table as an offer for Necas and that the Habs would be wise to pull the trigger on this trade.
Now, we know Romanov fetched pick 13 and I think Xhekaj could potentially fetch a pick even higher than that on his own (something in the 8-12 range wouldn't surprise me), given how rare a combination of size, toughness, skating, and shot he possesses. He's a player a lot of teams would covet, and he helps the Canes immensely in their search for D men who are already established as NHL-quality but cost-controlled as well. The Canes have also faltered in the playoffs the past few years and could use an infusion of toughness. So this fits for them. I'm less enthralled by the Habs giving up Xhekaj from my end and not so eager to give up multiple assets in this type of a trade. Is Necas worth a 10th overall pick (Xhekaj's equivalency IMO) AND another 1st rounder? Maybe. But then factor in that he hasn't been the most clutch player for Carolina AND he's going to be due a big raise. If it were Xhekaj at 5M a year or Necas at 7M, that's a different question. But if it's Xhekaj at 1.5-3M for the next few years vs. Necas at 7M, the Canes are saving a lot of cap room there. That's why Matheson for Necas makes more sense to me from our end, as a way of trading out a player who fits our window less well and will be making a more comparable salary to what Necas will be getting. If Dach went for picks 13 and 66, then giving up Xhekaj and 26 is too much for me. Matheson for Necas straight up? I'd consider that. Xhekaj and a 3rd or 4th for Necas? Would also consider. Otherwise, if the plan is to deal Xhekaj, I'd rather look to see what else we can get for him in terms of an asset that's got better cost control for a few years or that addresses our need for a top center or RHD rather than wing. I think the odds are high we'll get a winger in the draft, so I'd rather see us trade a LHD (be it Xhekaj, Matheson, or Guhle) to address one of the premium positions.
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Post by claremont on Jun 3, 2024 20:42:17 GMT
Lots of smoke coming out in this Necas-Habs situation. Here are the highlights: 1. Frank Seravalli says he believes Necas will be traded this week, ahead of the draft. 2. Widely rumored the Canes want an established NHL defenceman as part of the deal. 3. Jordan Harris' parents have apparently stated that they don't believe Harris will be traded. The rumors are that Harris is a favorite of MSL's and that he prefers keeping Harris over Xhekaj, whereas Habs' management likes Xhekaj. But MSL is reportedly stepping up to bat for Harris. 4. JC Lajoie supports this theory and says he thinks the Habs intend on keeping Harris as an affordable 3rd-pairing player who can be a smart player and a leader on the team. He believes the Habs will trade Xhekaj and that it could be as early as this week. He says in his opinion, a Xhekaj plus draft pick (either the Jets' 1st or a 2nd rounder) could be on the table as an offer for Necas and that the Habs would be wise to pull the trigger on this trade. Now, we know Romanov fetched pick 13 and I think Xhekaj could potentially fetch a pick even higher than that on his own (something in the 8-12 range wouldn't surprise me), given how rare a combination of size, toughness, skating, and shot he possesses. He's a player a lot of teams would covet, and he helps the Canes immensely in their search for D men who are already established as NHL-quality but cost-controlled as well. The Canes have also faltered in the playoffs the past few years and could use an infusion of toughness. So this fits for them. I'm less enthralled by the Habs giving up Xhekaj from my end and not so eager to give up multiple assets in this type of a trade. Is Necas worth a 10th overall pick (Xhekaj's equivalency IMO) AND another 1st rounder? Maybe. But then factor in that he hasn't been the most clutch player for Carolina AND he's going to be due a big raise. If it were Xhekaj at 5M a year or Necas at 7M, that's a different question. But if it's Xhekaj at 1.5-3M for the next few years vs. Necas at 7M, the Canes are saving a lot of cap room there. That's why Matheson for Necas makes more sense to me from our end, as a way of trading out a player who fits our window less well and will be making a more comparable salary to what Necas will be getting. If Dach went for picks 13 and 66, then giving up Xhekaj and 26 is too much for me. Matheson for Necas straight up? I'd consider that. Xhekaj and a 3rd or 4th for Necas? Would also consider. Otherwise, if the plan is to deal Xhekaj, I'd rather look to see what else we can get for him in terms of an asset that's got better cost control for a few years or that addresses our need for a top center or RHD rather than wing. I think the odds are high we'll get a winger in the draft, so I'd rather see us trade a LHD (be it Xhekaj, Matheson, or Guhle) to address one of the premium positions. You raise a few interesting points: A) In a coach vs. management battle who wins? I have to think that MSL and HuGo would have to be fairly aligned on evaluations and proposals but it's usually a GM's job to get the players as GM's outlast coaches. B) Are Harris (131 games), and Xhekaj (95 games) sufficiently established NHL defensemen for the Canes who may or may not re-sigh LHD Skej? Based on your Romanov example who had 133 games of experience for that #13 pick, I conclude yes. Canes only have LHD Orlov (soon to be 33), and Slavin (turned 30), signed for one year. I would think they would want to get younger (Harris and Xhekaj attractive in that sense but neither #1 pairing but neither was Romy). Matheson (age 30) locked up for 2 more years and is top pairing for at least that term so I could see why he would be more attractive. Now I wonder with a bit player in Florian Xhekaj whether it matters on trading brother Arber. There is possibly some motivational intangible synergy here but this likely may be immaterial in the grand scheme. As much as I liked Romanov, he had resilience but wasn't going to be more than 2nd pairing, and was not going to be a 2nd unit power play d-man. I too like Xhekaj for the dimension he brings although he is in the same camp in my books as Romanov. Guhle who has had some injuries, IMO still has higher ceiling potential. So my feeling is I would trade Harris or Matheson in this deal. On The value equation: a) Agree Matheson for Necas straight up - Yes although Matheson may have slightly more value than Necas since he is clearly a 1st unit guy, so maybe we get the Canes 2nd rounder as well. b) Xhekaj or Harris are arguably both 3rd pairing guys for Necas who is a 2nd pairing guy so one needs to sweeten that deal. Pick #26 is a bit rich to add in, so if pick #57 our 2nd rounder is sufficient - I would make that deal.
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Post by maasart on Jun 3, 2024 21:30:26 GMT
Lots of smoke coming out in this Necas-Habs situation. Here are the highlights: 1. Frank Seravalli says he believes Necas will be traded this week, ahead of the draft. 2. Widely rumored the Canes want an established NHL defenceman as part of the deal. 3. Jordan Harris' parents have apparently stated that they don't believe Harris will be traded. The rumors are that Harris is a favorite of MSL's and that he prefers keeping Harris over Xhekaj, whereas Habs' management likes Xhekaj. But MSL is reportedly stepping up to bat for Harris. 4. JC Lajoie supports this theory and says he thinks the Habs intend on keeping Harris as an affordable 3rd-pairing player who can be a smart player and a leader on the team. He believes the Habs will trade Xhekaj and that it could be as early as this week. He says in his opinion, a Xhekaj plus draft pick (either the Jets' 1st or a 2nd rounder) could be on the table as an offer for Necas and that the Habs would be wise to pull the trigger on this trade. Now, we know Romanov fetched pick 13 and I think Xhekaj could potentially fetch a pick even higher than that on his own (something in the 8-12 range wouldn't surprise me), given how rare a combination of size, toughness, skating, and shot he possesses. He's a player a lot of teams would covet, and he helps the Canes immensely in their search for D men who are already established as NHL-quality but cost-controlled as well. The Canes have also faltered in the playoffs the past few years and could use an infusion of toughness. So this fits for them. I'm less enthralled by the Habs giving up Xhekaj from my end and not so eager to give up multiple assets in this type of a trade. Is Necas worth a 10th overall pick (Xhekaj's equivalency IMO) AND another 1st rounder? Maybe. But then factor in that he hasn't been the most clutch player for Carolina AND he's going to be due a big raise. If it were Xhekaj at 5M a year or Necas at 7M, that's a different question. But if it's Xhekaj at 1.5-3M for the next few years vs. Necas at 7M, the Canes are saving a lot of cap room there. That's why Matheson for Necas makes more sense to me from our end, as a way of trading out a player who fits our window less well and will be making a more comparable salary to what Necas will be getting. If Dach went for picks 13 and 66, then giving up Xhekaj and 26 is too much for me. Matheson for Necas straight up? I'd consider that. Xhekaj and a 3rd or 4th for Necas? Would also consider. Otherwise, if the plan is to deal Xhekaj, I'd rather look to see what else we can get for him in terms of an asset that's got better cost control for a few years or that addresses our need for a top center or RHD rather than wing. I think the odds are high we'll get a winger in the draft, so I'd rather see us trade a LHD (be it Xhekaj, Matheson, or Guhle) to address one of the premium positions. I think there's a solid chance we're into the offers stage for Necas. When you look at what MSL and Hughes have said, they want to compete this year. The team is getting better and we will add Dach & maybe a young dman to this roster but thats about it. We might make an UFA signing but that wont move the needle much. Our #5 pick is unlikely to play for a couple of years. So adding a guy like Necas to our top 6 now would be a huge step towards competing. As Ive said earlier in the thread: the only thing im really concerned with is: what is he looking for, long term. If the $$ is right, i move him, yes. He's RFA so any trade would certainly include a signing. He's the perfect age (drafted 1 spot ahead of Suzuki) and I still think he has space to grow as a player. Id be down for this move. And i think both your & Claremont's offers are sound. Plan A: (my favourite) Matheson + 2nd or 3rd for Necas. Plan B: Harris or Xhekaj or Struble + our 2nd for Necas I think Matheson makes way more sense for Carolina if they are in win-now mode but who knows. Either way, at some point, we're going to be moving some players we like this year & thats always tough but if it makes the team stronger, that should make it an easier pill to swallow. Arber is really sweet kid though, would be sad to see him go.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 3, 2024 23:50:24 GMT
^^ Matheson makes a lot more sense to me than Xhekaj insofar as what helps Carolina. My feeling is that Hughes doesn't want to give him up and has told teams he's off limits, simply because he sees him as a leader in the room and a veteran to support the younger D men. If Savard goes before the end of next season, there's no true veteran left. That said, I think you want to capitalize on selling high on Matheson. Maybe you have another year to do that, but you also need to factor in finding roster space to play all your LHD now... if Hutson's ready, there's no point letting him languish in a more physical but less talented AHL. Harris and Xhekaj can't go back to the AHL any more, and Struble and Guhle are capable NHL D men too. Something has to give. If it's Matheson for Necas, I think you can argue that's a straight-up deal. No picks included from us. Matheson was a top 15-20 D man in the league last year and he's signed to a reasonable contract. He's a solid asset. If Necas is signed to 4-5 years at 5M a year, then sure you could argue that's worth more than Matheson, but if the sign-and-trade is Necas at 7M AAV, then that Matheson contract is more valuable.
I'm personally more reticent to give up Xhekaj. There, I think we'd need to pitch in a mid-round pick, but Xhekaj is the type of player who becomes very valuable in the post-season. We haven't seen that here yet on a bad team, but I think it would be a mistake to give up on him now and then have to search to find players like him when we're a playoff team. It's a bit like Armia... not a valued asset on a non-playoff team, but a guy who can be extremely valuable when you're competing for a Cup.
Likewise, have also started to see rumors with our tossing Owen Beck into trades as a throw-in. That's another non-starter for me. He's not a prolific player, but he's a complete two-way player... smart, hard-working, some offensive instinct, etc. He projects a lot the way a Philip Danault played, and I think that's a valuable and often under-appreciated asset. I'd easily give up Mesar but am not keen on giving up Beck. If we were to draft Lindstrom for example, then a middle of Suzuki-Lindstrom-Beck, with Dach on the wing as injury insurance seems like a solid backbone to your forward group. I think Beck is also pro-ready. He has a translatable game. So he's someone who could step in for Dvorak or Evans as soon as next year.
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Post by graeme on Jun 4, 2024 0:19:20 GMT
^^ Matheson makes a lot more sense to me than Xhekaj insofar as what helps Carolina. My feeling is that Hughes doesn't want to give him up and has told teams he's off limits, simply because he sees him as a leader in the room and a veteran to support the younger D men. If Savard goes before the end of next season, there's no true veteran left. That said, I think you want to capitalize on selling high on Matheson. Maybe you have another year to do that, but you also need to factor in finding roster space to play all your LHD now... if Hutson's ready, there's no point letting him languish in a more physical but less talented AHL. Harris and Xhekaj can't go back to the AHL any more, and Struble and Guhle are capable NHL D men too. Something has to give. If it's Matheson for Necas, I think you can argue that's a straight-up deal. No picks included from us. Matheson was a top 15-20 D man in the league last year and he's signed to a reasonable contract. He's a solid asset. If Necas is signed to 4-5 years at 5M a year, then sure you could argue that's worth more than Matheson, but if the sign-and-trade is Necas at 7M AAV, then that Matheson contract is more valuable. I'm personally more reticent to give up Xhekaj. There, I think we'd need to pitch in a mid-round pick, but Xhekaj is the type of player who becomes very valuable in the post-season. We haven't seen that here yet on a bad team, but I think it would be a mistake to give up on him now and then have to search to find players like him when we're a playoff team. It's a bit like Armia... not a valued asset on a non-playoff team, but a guy who can be extremely valuable when you're competing for a Cup. Likewise, have also started to see rumors with our tossing Owen Beck into trades as a throw-in. That's another non-starter for me. He's not a prolific player, but he's a complete two-way player... smart, hard-working, some offensive instinct, etc. He projects a lot the way a Philip Danault played, and I think that's a valuable and often under-appreciated asset. I'd easily give up Mesar but am not keen on giving up Beck. If we were to draft Lindstrom for example, then a middle of Suzuki-Lindstrom-Beck, with Dach on the wing as injury insurance seems like a solid backbone to your forward group. I think Beck is also pro-ready. He has a translatable game. So he's someone who could step in for Dvorak or Evans as soon as next year. I really have trouble picturing our management group giving up Xhekaj: for better or worse, they seem to place particular importance on guys with combination of skills that are hard to find, the ability to thrive in Montreal, and ability to be part of a deep playoff run. It was the exact justification for drafting Slafkovsky, and while the ceiling isn't as high, the same basic arguments should apply to Xhekaj (in addition to his size and grit helping an otherwise undersized team).
Unless it's for a young center, Beck in rumours is weird given our lack of prospect depth at center (especially since it still sounds like the team is seeing Newhook as a winger). Mesar makes a lot more sense, although we might be selling low this summer.
I agree on Matheson. Although it's a bit tough to know his value due to his tendency to make some boneheaded plays, dmen coming off 58 point seasons making under 5 million a season don't grow on trees, and Carolina is trying to contend now. The flip-side is he's 5 years older than Necas and only cost controlled for 2 of them, but I do think you can argue it's fair one-for-one, especially if as you say, Necas costs more for the next 2 seasons. The team may not want to lose him, but especially with Hutson likely to stay on the team, the alternative options seem worse.
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Post by maasart on Jun 4, 2024 2:19:07 GMT
^^ Matheson makes a lot more sense to me than Xhekaj insofar as what helps Carolina. My feeling is that Hughes doesn't want to give him up and has told teams he's off limits, simply because he sees him as a leader in the room and a veteran to support the younger D men. If Savard goes before the end of next season, there's no true veteran left. That said, I think you want to capitalize on selling high on Matheson. Maybe you have another year to do that, but you also need to factor in finding roster space to play all your LHD now... if Hutson's ready, there's no point letting him languish in a more physical but less talented AHL. Harris and Xhekaj can't go back to the AHL any more, and Struble and Guhle are capable NHL D men too. Something has to give. If it's Matheson for Necas, I think you can argue that's a straight-up deal. No picks included from us. Matheson was a top 15-20 D man in the league last year and he's signed to a reasonable contract. He's a solid asset. If Necas is signed to 4-5 years at 5M a year, then sure you could argue that's worth more than Matheson, but if the sign-and-trade is Necas at 7M AAV, then that Matheson contract is more valuable. I agree. I actually meant Matheson for Necas + 2nd or 3rd, not the other way around. I think you have to add the pick if you're sending off the younger Dmen but not for matheson.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 4, 2024 2:50:20 GMT
^^ Matheson makes a lot more sense to me than Xhekaj insofar as what helps Carolina. My feeling is that Hughes doesn't want to give him up and has told teams he's off limits, simply because he sees him as a leader in the room and a veteran to support the younger D men. If Savard goes before the end of next season, there's no true veteran left. That said, I think you want to capitalize on selling high on Matheson. Maybe you have another year to do that, but you also need to factor in finding roster space to play all your LHD now... if Hutson's ready, there's no point letting him languish in a more physical but less talented AHL. Harris and Xhekaj can't go back to the AHL any more, and Struble and Guhle are capable NHL D men too. Something has to give. If it's Matheson for Necas, I think you can argue that's a straight-up deal. No picks included from us. Matheson was a top 15-20 D man in the league last year and he's signed to a reasonable contract. He's a solid asset. If Necas is signed to 4-5 years at 5M a year, then sure you could argue that's worth more than Matheson, but if the sign-and-trade is Necas at 7M AAV, then that Matheson contract is more valuable. I'm personally more reticent to give up Xhekaj. There, I think we'd need to pitch in a mid-round pick, but Xhekaj is the type of player who becomes very valuable in the post-season. We haven't seen that here yet on a bad team, but I think it would be a mistake to give up on him now and then have to search to find players like him when we're a playoff team. It's a bit like Armia... not a valued asset on a non-playoff team, but a guy who can be extremely valuable when you're competing for a Cup. Likewise, have also started to see rumors with our tossing Owen Beck into trades as a throw-in. That's another non-starter for me. He's not a prolific player, but he's a complete two-way player... smart, hard-working, some offensive instinct, etc. He projects a lot the way a Philip Danault played, and I think that's a valuable and often under-appreciated asset. I'd easily give up Mesar but am not keen on giving up Beck. If we were to draft Lindstrom for example, then a middle of Suzuki-Lindstrom-Beck, with Dach on the wing as injury insurance seems like a solid backbone to your forward group. I think Beck is also pro-ready. He has a translatable game. So he's someone who could step in for Dvorak or Evans as soon as next year. I really have trouble picturing our management group giving up Xhekaj: for better or worse, they seem to place particular importance on guys with combination of skills that are hard to find, the ability to thrive in Montreal, and ability to be part of a deep playoff run. It was the exact justification for drafting Slafkovsky, and while the ceiling isn't as high, the same basic arguments should apply to Xhekaj (in addition to his size and grit helping an otherwise undersized team).
Unless it's for a young center, Beck in rumours is weird given our lack of prospect depth at center (especially since it still sounds like the team is seeing Newhook as a winger). Mesar makes a lot more sense, although we might be selling low this summer.
I agree on Matheson. Although it's a bit tough to know his value due to his tendency to make some boneheaded plays, dmen coming off 58 point seasons making under 5 million a season don't grow on trees, and Carolina is trying to contend now. The flip-side is he's 5 years older than Necas and only cost controlled for 2 of them, but I do think you can argue it's fair one-for-one, especially if as you say, Necas costs more for the next 2 seasons. The team may not want to lose him, but especially with Hutson likely to stay on the team, the alternative options seem worse.
Hard to know what rumors are true, but if you believe what we've heard, Hughes was telling other teams that Xhekaj wasn't available during last season. Calgary was one team rumored to be very high on him.
But that was then and this is now. I also wouldn't be in a hurry to trade him (as I outlined above). But the rumors are that he isn't a guy MSL feels he can lean on, and the coach prefers the more cerebral Harris and Guhle. It's true that last year, MSL looked a bit ticked off on occasion by some of the penalties Xhekaj took. But ultimately, he's the type of player you want to build around and might find hard to replace. It's easy to find goons. It's easy to find bigger D men. But it's hard to find big guys who can fight and protect your team without costing you when he's on the ice. Xhekaj's a rare breed in that regard, kind of like having a prime Lucic or Kreider or so on up front as a power forward who can play. I threw this idea out before too, but I also wonder if there's a place to use Xhekaj as a forward/7th D man.
So what's changed since last season? Well I think the narrative on Matheson and Savard has changed a bit. It sounds like Hughes looked into trading Savard and didn't like the prices, but you'd have to figure he think shard about moving him this year. If that's the plan, it leaves Matheson as the only true veteran. Wideman's done. Everyone else is pretty young. So I think Matheson having had a great year last year and being a local boy who wants to play here and now potentially being the only veteran left, I think there's less impetus to move on from him this coming year. Hutson signing and not looking out of place also plays into this. And Struble's emergence is a factor too. So suddenly, there's more immediate crowding on the left side of the D. Maybe Hughes thought they'd have more time before Hutson was ready, maybe they weren't counting on Struble, maybe they thought they might trade Matheson at some point. Regardless, I think the congestion has worsened a bit. The other factor to consider is where a team like Calgary is at. As I said, they really liked Xhekaj, and I think Xhekaj is worth a pick in the 8-12 range, based on Romanov being dealt for 13. So what if Calgary comes calling and offers you 9. It's unlikely to happen, but what if they do? If you draft a forward like Lindstrom or Iginla at 5, well a realistic projection could have Utah, Ottawa, and Seattle all drafting D men at 6, 7, and 8 respectively. That means you could also walk away with an Iginla or Sennecke or Catton at 9. Imagine the Habs pulled off a coup to draft Lindstrom at 5 and Iginla at 9. It would be pretty sweet. So ultimately, it would be important to know what's on the table for Xhekaj, as everyone has a price.
I'd be surprised if moving Harris is the only move. He's underrated, and he probably doesn't fetch a big return. Ditto Struble. So it makes more sense to trade one of Matheson, Guhle, or Xhekaj just based on being able to get a return that you can actually use to address another need.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Jun 5, 2024 16:47:23 GMT
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Post by maasart on Jun 5, 2024 16:51:11 GMT
I think its more likely we try to land Necas than Zegras. Both are quality players but I think the size difference is one aspect and the cost to acquire is also likely going to be less with Necas. Carolina is a competing team while Anaheim is rebuilding like us, so the chances of us finding a partner to trade with is greater with the Canes than the Ducks. Of course we may not trade for either if the cost is too high or there are other options out there. I mean who actually saw Dach or Newhook coming here before it happened?
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 5, 2024 17:43:42 GMT
I think its more likely we try to land Necas than Zegras. Both are quality players but I think the size difference is one aspect and the cost to acquire is also likely going to be less with Necas. Carolina is a competing team while Anaheim is rebuilding like us, so the chances of us finding a partner to trade with is greater with the Canes than the Ducks. Of course we may not trade for either if the cost is too high or there are other options out there. I mean who actually saw Dach or Newhook coming here before it happened?
Didn't see Dach coming at all. Didn't know he was available. Newhook was foreseeable. He was actually on a short list of players I thought Hughes might try to go after last summer, given Colorado's wealth of forwards and the fact Hughes knew Newhook as a former client. As for who's next, I think it's clear Hughes leaves no stone unturned. He's figuring out the market for those players, as a good GM should, but just because he's picked up the phone and inquired, doesn't mean he's had serious interest. In fact, Lebrun specifically stated that the Habs and Ducks have talked but that he doesn't think Montreal is seriously engaged in pursuing him right now. All the headlines just ran the part about how they talked. I'm sure 20 teams talked to Anaheim and and another 20-25 to Carolina.
That said, both guys have the potential to be fits here. As I noted, Hughes likes guys with whom he's familiar or whereby someone he trusts can give him a recommendation, and I've listed the ties Zegras has to people in the Montreal organization or acquaintances of Hughes before. There are links there. If Hughes wanted the inside story on Zegras, he could get it pretty easily, and the one thing I'll say is that the fact he still pursued a conversation means nothing he heard dispelled him from looking into Zegras. It tells me the issues about attitude and being soft are likely being overblown. Necas is also a guy who could fit in with what we need, but the question mark there is not just the return, it's what the contract is going to be. And so while I think Hughes would like to make a move this year to better the team and compete for a playoff spot, I think he also feels he can be patient. His key words were that he thought this off-season was important but that the summer of 2025 was even more important.
So we may also see lower-risk moves this summer in terms of commitments. I can see him exploring a 2-3 year deal with the likes of Stamkos or Marchessault. I can see him looking into Kent Johnson as a player you could sign to a cheap bridge deal and not have to commit anything to just yet. I could see him looking at Alex Holtz or Dawson Mercer from NJ. Kaapo Kakko from the Rangers. Peyton Krebs from Buffalo. Cole Perfetti from Winnipeg. Arthur Kaliyev in LA. Nils Hoglander from Vancouver. Those players are in my view more of the type of player that Hughes has targeted in the past: players who have established they can play in the NHL and so have a certain sustainable floor but who haven't come close to meeting their perceived ceilings when they were drafted. A number of those teams I listed (Buf, NJ, Clb, and LA, along with teams like the Isles) are teams I expect to be very active this summer. They're teams that fell short of expectations last year, have maybe made some coaching or management changes, and who will probably be interested in making an important change or two to their roster. Those are the types of teams I can see Hughes targeting, whereby they might be willing to sacrifice a younger piece to take a jump now.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Jun 7, 2024 19:54:09 GMT
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Jun 8, 2024 23:48:01 GMT
On IG ‘nhlheadlines ‘ June 7
The hurricanes want a star calibre player in return for Martin Necas , not picks and prospects ( Elliotte Friedman )
I guess that removes the Habs from the discussion 🤣
also, the Ducks want Reinbacher or Guhle in a deal for Trevor Zegras ( Arpon Basu )
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Post by claremont on Jun 9, 2024 0:36:12 GMT
On IG ‘nhlheadlines ‘ June 7 The hurricanes want a star calibre player in return for Martin Necas , not picks and prospects ( Elliotte Friedman ) I guess that removes the Habs from the discussion 🤣 also, the Ducks want Reinbacher or Guhle in a deal for Trevor Zegras ( Arpon Basu ) Matheson for Necas would be the only star player that could make sense for a Necas trade. Absolute NO on the Zegras deal
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 9, 2024 0:45:33 GMT
On IG ‘nhlheadlines ‘ June 7 The hurricanes want a star calibre player in return for Martin Necas , not picks and prospects ( Elliotte Friedman ) I guess that removes the Habs from the discussion 🤣 also, the Ducks want Reinbacher or Guhle in a deal for Trevor Zegras ( Arpon Basu ) Matheson for Necas would be the only star player that could make sense for a Necas trade. Absolute NO on the Zegras deal
I've been saying for 6 months that the Ducks were going to ask for Guhle in any deal for Zegras. Reinbacher also makes some sense. They need an all-around LHD and they need a RHD with some offence. I've also wondered if a deal could be structured around Mailloux, and I wonder (if we really did want to pursue Zegras) whether Mailloux could be the common ground the teams come to. Mailloux + Pick 26 + another prospect for Zegras, for example.
I do think Guhle could and maybe should be a trade chip for us. There's just no sense in carrying around 5-6 NHL-caliber LHD. That said, I also wonder if we can't find a better deal than Guhle for Zegras. I think Guhle for Zegras does overall improve our roster, not because he's more valuable but because the next man up after Guhle is to me more valuable than the next man up in the top 6. Right now, our top 6 is Suzuki, CC, Slaf, Dach, and then probably Newhook and Roy. Zegras is a bigger step up on those two players than Guhle is compared to Hutson, Harris, and Xhekaj filling in the left side of the D. But as I said, I wonder if we're going to trade Guhle whether we can do better than that. We also know picks 10 and 11 are up for grabs in the draft, and if we really wanted to, we could likely find a replacement D man for Guhle (or Matheson) with two top 10 picks. So I think there's room to move one in that type of a deal as well.
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Post by maasart on Jun 9, 2024 4:14:48 GMT
Matheson for Necas would be the only star player that could make sense for a Necas trade. Absolute NO on the Zegras deal
I've been saying for 6 months that the Ducks were going to ask for Guhle in any deal for Zegras. Reinbacher also makes some sense. They need an all-around LHD and they need a RHD with some offence. I've also wondered if a deal could be structured around Mailloux, and I wonder (if we really did want to pursue Zegras) whether Mailloux could be the common ground the teams come to. Mailloux + Pick 26 + another prospect for Zegras, for example.
I do think Guhle could and maybe should be a trade chip for us. There's just no sense in carrying around 5-6 NHL-caliber LHD. That said, I also wonder if we can't find a better deal than Guhle for Zegras. I think Guhle for Zegras does overall improve our roster, not because he's more valuable but because the next man up after Guhle is to me more valuable than the next man up in the top 6. Right now, our top 6 is Suzuki, CC, Slaf, Dach, and then probably Newhook and Roy. Zegras is a bigger step up on those two players than Guhle is compared to Hutson, Harris, and Xhekaj filling in the left side of the D. But as I said, I wonder if we're going to trade Guhle whether we can do better than that. We also know picks 10 and 11 are up for grabs in the draft, and if we really wanted to, we could likely find a replacement D man for Guhle (or Matheson) with two top 10 picks. So I think there's room to move one in that type of a deal as well.
If we feel like we can get another year or two out of Matheson then trading Guhle for #10 or 11 in this year's draft (+ probably a prospect) would be something worth exploring. I dont want to lose Guhle but we're going to have to move someone & sometimes you gotta trade the more valuable guys to make your team better.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Jun 10, 2024 12:53:53 GMT
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 10, 2024 14:03:58 GMT
Yes and no.
It is the same in terms of giving up a younger D man for a more established player but one who is still young and can be with you for 6-8 years, as well as trading an asset at one position for an asset at another position you are trying to fill.
It is different in that when Sergachev was traded, the team also lost Emelin and didn't retain Markov, and we had a dried-up pipeline at LHD. There was no plan to replace Sergachev, which was the problem.
I've always said that the premise behind the Sergachev for Drouin trade wasn't a bad one. It just lacked a follow-up move to fill the void at LHD that came afterwards. But at the time the trade was made, Drouin was a promising and skilled player with the potential to be a 1C. That's a hard asset to acquire, so I understand Bergevin taking that shot. It didn't work out, but it doesn't mean the rationale to that trade in isolation wasn't sound. We can likewise look at the maneuvering Hughes pulled off to essentially swap Romanov for Dach and see that as being similar in premise. He dealt a young LHD who hadn't yet had a full chance for a young but slightly-more-established center. The difference here was that Hughes knew he had the pipeline of LHD to be able to give up Romanov. There was no guarantee Dach would end up being the better asset than Romanov (or the 13th overall pick) and there still isn't. In 5-10 years, we might look back at this trade as being one that didn't work out, if Dach continues to be shelved by injuries or if Romanov becomes a 25-minute D man for the Isles or if Nazar turns into a top 6 center with a better career than Dach. But it doesn't mean the idea wasn't reasonable.
In a Zegras deal, the premise would be the same, especially if we deal a LHD. Maybe Guhle ends up being the better player long term. Maybe he doesn't. But you're still trading from a position where you have an abundance of NHL talent for a top 6 forward, where you currently lack assets. Right now, we'd be using two of Newhook, Roy, Anderson, etc. in the top 6, so Zegras is a big step up there. We're better off, at least in the short term, adding Zegras to the top 6 over Roy, and then having Hutson or Xhekaj mop up the Guhle minutes than we are using Roy as a top 6, including an RHP or Ylonen or Farrell in the top 12, and having Xhekaj or Hutson in the pressbox because we have no room in the line-up for them. The trade, in isolation, makes sense in terms of the balance of assets. The bigger question for me is whether trading Guhle for Zegras is the best way to use that asset. What if Utah or Seattle, both of whom want a top 4 D man, offered to trade us pick 6 or 8 for Guhle? Are we better off dealing him and being able to draft say Lindstrom at 5 and then Iginla, Catton, Eiserman, or Sennecke at 6 or 8? What if Buffalo offers you a player like Krebs or Kulich and pick 11 for Guhle and pick 57? Is that a better deal? What if Ottawa offers you Brady Tkachuk for Guhle, Beck, and pick 26? I'm not saying one of these trades is more desirable than another, but I think Guhle would draw significant interest from multiple teams, so I'd think you'd have several options to look at if you really wanted to consider him a trade asset.
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