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Post by BigTed3 on Jul 1, 2024 14:50:38 GMT
Yeah, but then by the same token... Jesse Ylonen 24, Mattias Norlinder 24, Lias Andersson 25... we just let all those guys walk for nothing. Ryan Poehling was 23hen we tossed him in as a throw-in in the Jeff Petry trade. Noah Juulsen was 23 when we put him on waivers and lost him. Jarred Tinordi was 23 when we sent him packing for peanuts. Kyle Chipchura was also 23 when we gave up on him. Going back further, there was that whole slew of younger guys we ditched early in their careers who went on to have strong careers... Ron Hainsey, Stephane Robidas, Francois Beauchemin, Darcy Tucker, Mikhail Grabovski, Arron Asham, Andrew Cassels, Craig Conroy, etc. Some were lost for nothing, some were throw-ins in trades, some were exposed in expansion drafts, and so on. And you can find similar stories with other teams.
The bottom line is
1. I agree, teams often don't give proper chances to their young blue chip prospects and end up losing them without having seen what they can do. 2. At the same time, you can't keep everyone. There isn't enough ice time, there aren't enough roster and contract spots, and there's a salary cap. So Boqvist at 2.6M may just not be feasible for Columbus, and if they see 3 RHD ahead of him on their depth chart longterm, then they probably tried to trade him and couldn't find a suitor at that cap.
I'd certainly be willing to sign him to a lower cap hit and give him a try here. I still believe we could use help on the right side of our D, especially with Kovacevic traded. Maybe Boqvist gets beaten out in camp here too, but if he's making 1-1.5M a year, then sending him to the minors is less of an issue. And if Mailloux, Reinbacher, and/or Barron aren't ready, he'd be another younger player with some experience added to the mix.
Agree with that. HuGo have always stated they don't want to sign someone to deter the development of their current pool, but one has to figure Savard is likely gone within the year. Reinbacher could probably use another 2-3 months to the trade deadline in Laval. Guhle can cover the right side but not is not optimal. Better to sign Boqvist than a Giordano which was insane. An 8 man D of Matheson, Guhle, Hutson, Mailloux, Savard - Harris Xhekaj, Boqvist with Struble in Laval for awhile would not be terrible. One would think that Harris could be a trade thought as well. The problem is that if you trade Harris, Struble, or Barron, you're not getting a good return. If you trade Matheson, Guhle, Savard, or Xhekaj, your return should be better. It makes more sense to me to trade someone with strong value now than to just waste assets clearing roster spots.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
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Post by regis on Jul 1, 2024 14:54:44 GMT
^^^ But if. You trade matheson Guhle Savard wifi now you’re potentially making yourself weaker at that position now.
Harris struble Barron probably what you see from then now is what you’re going to get in the future
and I read people wanna trade Matheson , he doesn’t fit in our “ window “ . then who is going to replace matheson ? Kinda like when Weber left , now we’re looking for RHD .
oh, and we wanna get rid of matheson ( 30 ) but then we wanna bring in Stamkos ( 34 )
I don’t get it
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regis
Le Gros Bill
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Post by regis on Jul 1, 2024 20:25:21 GMT
League reinstated bowman and quenville
and
YOUR maple leafs sign stanley cup winning goalie Anthony stolarz
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Jul 2, 2024 1:02:59 GMT
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Post by BigTed3 on Jul 2, 2024 1:34:52 GMT
^^^ But if. You trade matheson Guhle Savard wifi now you’re potentially making yourself weaker at that position now. Harris struble Barron probably what you see from then now is what you’re going to get in the future and I read people wanna trade Matheson , he doesn’t fit in our “ window “ . then who is going to replace matheson ? Kinda like when Weber left , now we’re looking for RHD . oh, and we wanna get rid of matheson ( 30 ) but then we wanna bring in Stamkos ( 34 ) I don’t get it From my point of view:
1. You trade one of Guhle or Matheson now. We have too many LHD to give them all minutes and keep their values up. You trade Savard closer to the deadline.
2. Yes, we are lacking RHD. I said that for a couple of years when Weber and Petry were still here and playing well that we needed to address the future of RHD in the organization because we had nothing in our cupboards after those two were done. I advocated for trading Weber several years ago, trying to acquire someone like a Matt Dumba instead, who could have been good right away but still played a couple of years past what Weber gave us. The Habs didn't have a succession plan in place at that spot. Just like right now, they're lacking in terms of scoring wingers and only started addressing that this draft. All that to say that even if Weber were still here, he wouldn't be much help. We passed his window to be able to help us and we ended up getting no assets in return for him. We did the same thing with Markov, Plekanec, Petry, Price, Gallagher, etc... let them all grow old here and past prime and then scrambled to try to patch the holes. So I'll say it again: if you're a contending team, you can afford to overpay veterans and keep them a bit past prime and sacrifice a bit of your cap space for the future in order to take your run at the Cup. But for us, when we're not contenders, we shouldn't be sitting on assets that are likely to depreciate quickly.
3. Matheson vs. Stamkos is two different stories. Matheson is an asset we already have. He is playing at the top of his game right now and I'd venture his trade value has never been higher. So the choice is to keep Matheson or to trade him. If we keep him, I think we'd likely get 2-3 more decent years out of him, but I highly doubt he's going to have a significantly better season than what he just put together. With Hutson coming and the logjam at LHD, I can't see him getting the same minutes he had last year over and over. I can't see him getting all the 1st-wave PP time and always getting to play with the 1st line on the ice. So realistically, Matheson's value is going to be the same or lower going forward. The decision to trade him isn't based on whether he can help the team win now or not, it's based on maximizing his value to obtain the best return possible AND it's based on the opportunity cost of trading him... deal him, and there are other players who benefit from getting his ice time. Guhle is ready to take on a bigger role. So is Xhekaj. Hutson needs a roster spot and PP time. Struble can't go back to the AHL. Conversely, we didn't have Stamkos. We had nothing to lose by signing him, other than taking on a bad contract. But we give up no assets in signing him (ie this wasn't a trade). So the choice here is to add that player to the stable or to not add him. If we add him, we get a player who is still effective and who can help to be a veteran leader in our top 6. Maybe he teaches CC and Slaf and Suzuki and Newhook and so on some stuff about winning and running a PP and so on. And if we had signed him to a 3-year deal, for example, I think we could have been competitive in that time, in part because of his being here. The downside to signing Stamkos would have been the term on his contract. Ultimately, he chose a 4-year deal with Nashville, and I likely wouldn't have taken that term because we don't want to put ourselves in a position of having 8M in wasted cap space in years where we want to be winners. But if Stamkos had been willing to take a reasonable term here, there's no question he would have been an added asset. Likewise, I advocated for trading Monahan over the past two years, but now that he was a UFA, I would have happily taken him back on a reasonable 2-year deal. Again, didn't happen, but the premise is the same. This is not about liking one player more than another so much as it is figuring out what the cost of having or not having that player is and choosing the best outcome for the team. In this case, the pluses of trading Matheson outweigh the negatives.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Jul 11, 2024 5:28:46 GMT
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Post by HTL on Jul 11, 2024 13:36:57 GMT
Why stop there? I hear Tyson is available,,,,sharp teeth required.
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Post by claremont on Jul 14, 2024 14:36:57 GMT
Braden Schneider signed a 2 year bridge contract with NYR for AAV $2.2M. RHD Schneider (#19 - 2020 draft) was promoted 1 year ahead of Guhle (#16 - 2020) whereas the Habs sent Guhle back for another year of junior. Does set a bit of a bar for Guhle's next contract assuming Guhle performs this year. Wondering whether HuGo will lock him up a little earlier.
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Post by maasart on Jul 15, 2024 15:05:47 GMT
Braden Schneider signed a 2 year bridge contract with NYR for AAV $2.2M. RHD Schneider (#19 - 2020 draft) was promoted 1 year ahead of Guhle (#16 - 2020) whereas the Habs sent Guhle back for another year of junior. Does set a bit of a bar for Guhle's next contract assuming Guhle performs this year. Wondering whether HuGo will lock him up a little earlier. I think if Hughes can lock him in for longer, he will. He doesnt seem to love bridge deals for core pieces.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jul 15, 2024 16:21:26 GMT
Braden Schneider signed a 2 year bridge contract with NYR for AAV $2.2M. RHD Schneider (#19 - 2020 draft) was promoted 1 year ahead of Guhle (#16 - 2020) whereas the Habs sent Guhle back for another year of junior. Does set a bit of a bar for Guhle's next contract assuming Guhle performs this year. Wondering whether HuGo will lock him up a little earlier. I think if Hughes can lock him in for longer, he will. He doesnt seem to love bridge deals for core pieces. The bigger question is whether he views Guhle as part of the core. He's noted that he and Guhle's camp are farther apart on initial contract views than he was with the players on his first line who are all locked in longterm. Is this just salary or is this also a function of contract term?
Let's remember that Guhle probably doesn't have the same ceiling as a Suzuki, CC, or Slafkovsky. He probably doesn't even have the same ceiling as a Hutson or Reinbacher. So it could be that Hughes views Guhle more akin to how he viewed Dach or Newhook (two younger players who actually did get deals that were more medium-length bridge type deals). These are guys who could be core guys some day but are on the fringe right now. Like Dach, Guhle also comes with a significant injury history, and with the depth the Habs have at LHD organizationally, I think Hughes wants to maintain some flexibility here. It's well within the realm of possibilities that Guhle is traded this year or next, and it would certainly be easier to move him on a 2-year, 3.5M AAV deal than it would on an 8-year 6M AAV deal.
I'm personally not sold yet on whether Guhle is part of the core or not. I think he's a solid player who is probably a 2nd-pairing guy, but I think he's also a guy who could be sacrificed to address a more important need, given how strong we are at LHD. It serves us no purpose to have the likes of Hutson, Engstrom, and Xhekaj losing opportunity on D while we're forced to play Anderson, Armia, Gallagher, Dvorak, Evans, or RHP in the top 9 because of a lack of top end in the forward group.
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Post by claremont on Jul 15, 2024 17:28:58 GMT
www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/senators-acquire-bourgault-chiasson-from-oilers-for-jarventie-pick/ Would have thought we could have done that deal for a Farrell etc as Bourgault is a development project - a high draft pick that hasn’t blossomed. He’s a Centre that had junior scoring touch but hasn’t killed it in the ahl. I’m guessing he doesn’t want to derail Dvorak, and Evans who are on the bubble, and give Beck opportunities (ignoring the Dach st Centre evaluation). I’m hoping there are better/bigger potential trade deals out there
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Post by maasart on Jul 15, 2024 17:54:20 GMT
I think if Hughes can lock him in for longer, he will. He doesnt seem to love bridge deals for core pieces. The bigger question is whether he views Guhle as part of the core. He's noted that he and Guhle's camp are farther apart on initial contract views than he was with the players on his first line who are all locked in longterm. Is this just salary or is this also a function of contract term?
Let's remember that Guhle probably doesn't have the same ceiling as a Suzuki, CC, or Slafkovsky. He probably doesn't even have the same ceiling as a Hutson or Reinbacher. So it could be that Hughes views Guhle more akin to how he viewed Dach or Newhook (two younger players who actually did get deals that were more medium-length bridge type deals). These are guys who could be core guys some day but are on the fringe right now. Like Dach, Guhle also comes with a significant injury history, and with the depth the Habs have at LHD organizationally, I think Hughes wants to maintain some flexibility here. It's well within the realm of possibilities that Guhle is traded this year or next, and it would certainly be easier to move him on a 2-year, 3.5M AAV deal than it would on an 8-year 6M AAV deal.
I'm personally not sold yet on whether Guhle is part of the core or not. I think he's a solid player who is probably a 2nd-pairing guy, but I think he's also a guy who could be sacrificed to address a more important need, given how strong we are at LHD. It serves us no purpose to have the likes of Hutson, Engstrom, and Xhekaj losing opportunity on D while we're forced to play Anderson, Armia, Gallagher, Dvorak, Evans, or RHP in the top 9 because of a lack of top end in the forward group.
Agree on all of this. I think Hughes views Guhle as our #3 behind Hutson and Reinbacher. Guhle probably sees his ceiling as Weber's so they're probably a bit apart when it come to evaluation. I think the Dach/newhook "long-term bridge" (4-5 years) is probably something that works for both parties. I dont see us doing a 2 year bridge but something a little longer, still keeps him RFA for 1 year and is maybe just a *touch* above a 2 year deal in terms of $$ is the best course of action right now. I think length will also be factored by whose contracts are done, when. Its no coincidence that all of our important players have contracts ending in different offseasons. So while i dont think
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Post by BigTed3 on Jul 15, 2024 18:26:57 GMT
The bigger question is whether he views Guhle as part of the core. He's noted that he and Guhle's camp are farther apart on initial contract views than he was with the players on his first line who are all locked in longterm. Is this just salary or is this also a function of contract term?
Let's remember that Guhle probably doesn't have the same ceiling as a Suzuki, CC, or Slafkovsky. He probably doesn't even have the same ceiling as a Hutson or Reinbacher. So it could be that Hughes views Guhle more akin to how he viewed Dach or Newhook (two younger players who actually did get deals that were more medium-length bridge type deals). These are guys who could be core guys some day but are on the fringe right now. Like Dach, Guhle also comes with a significant injury history, and with the depth the Habs have at LHD organizationally, I think Hughes wants to maintain some flexibility here. It's well within the realm of possibilities that Guhle is traded this year or next, and it would certainly be easier to move him on a 2-year, 3.5M AAV deal than it would on an 8-year 6M AAV deal.
I'm personally not sold yet on whether Guhle is part of the core or not. I think he's a solid player who is probably a 2nd-pairing guy, but I think he's also a guy who could be sacrificed to address a more important need, given how strong we are at LHD. It serves us no purpose to have the likes of Hutson, Engstrom, and Xhekaj losing opportunity on D while we're forced to play Anderson, Armia, Gallagher, Dvorak, Evans, or RHP in the top 9 because of a lack of top end in the forward group.
Agree on all of this. I think Hughes views Guhle as our #3 behind Hutson and Reinbacher. Guhle probably sees his ceiling as Weber's so they're probably a bit apart when it come to evaluation. I think the Dach/newhook "long-term bridge" (4-5 years) is probably something that works for both parties. I dont see us doing a 2 year bridge but something a little longer, still keeps him RFA for 1 year and is maybe just a *touch* above a 2 year deal in terms of $$ is the best course of action right now. I think length will also be factored by whose contracts are done, when. Its no coincidence that all of our important players have contracts ending in different offseasons. So while i dont think
With respect to the future of the D, it's clear having Hutson seemed to be a consideration in drafting Reinbacher, in that he was a "fit" with what they already had. They played the two together at rookie camp last year, and I wouldn't be surprised if they start the year as a pairing in Laval. Likewise, the team played Xhekaj and Mailloux together in Laval last year and had some success. They made pairs out of Struble, Harris, and Kovacevic last year. Guhle, for his part, has mainly been paired with Matheson and Savard, but both those guys aren't going to be here longterm. I don't know if the Habs have figured out where they see Guhle in the line-up longterm. If Hutson-Reinbacher and Xhekaj-Mailloux are two of your pairings going forward, they still need to find someone to pair with Guhle, or with Engstrom or Struble or Harris.
From Hughes' end I think you want to be careful about a 4-5 year deal with Guhle in that you could end up with a player who becomes a UFA in his prime. A 2 or 3 year deal gives you some time to further your evaluation, figure out if he's a fit, and maintain trade value. I get that may not be what Guhle wants, but has he really earned the same longterm deal as a Suzuki or Caufield or Slafkovsky? IMO he has not. Too many injuries, still too inconsistent. He's highly-regarded by the media and fans, but he is a long ways away from being Shea Weber.
If we compare Guhle to Weber at the start of his career, Guhle has put up 40 points in his first 114 games (0.35 PPG). He's harboring a Corsi around 44%, and the Habs are being outscored about 1.5 to 1 with him on the ice. Weber put up 50 points in his first 107 games (0.47 PPG) and while Corsi wasn't available for the first two years of his career, his subsequent seasons were all quite positive. Weber was also more valuable as a righty, whereas Guhle is a lefty on a team deep at LHD.
If we're looking for comparable, seeing what Dallas does with Thomas Harley this summer could be a good indication. As mentioned above, Braden Schneider's 2-year 2.2M deal probably sets the tone for what Guhle could be looking at, though I think Guhle has more value to us than Schneider has to NY. Alex Vlasic signed 6 years at 4.6M AAV in Chicago, though that was an over-payment from a team with oodles of cap space. Jamie Drysdale, another oft-injured former 1st rounder (drafted 5th overall), is signed to a 3-year deal at 2.3M AAV and probably has more upside than Guhle. K'Andre Miller is on a 2-year bridge deal worth 3.8M AAV. Mario Ferraro is on a 4-year deal worth 3.25M AAV. So ultimately, I think a 2-3 year deal is going to bring Guhle in around where these bridge deals are: in the 2.25 to 3.75M range. I picked 3.5M as a reasonable end decision. I'm not sure he's worth committing 5-6M to on a longterm deal right now, one because of his health issues and two because I'm still not sure how much higher his ceiling is than where he is already. He'll get more experience and smarts as he plays more, but I don't see the offence as getting that much better and ultimately, he's a two-way minute muncher, which makes him more of a second-pairing player.
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RCAF48
Captain Kirk
Posts: 458
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Post by RCAF48 on Jul 15, 2024 19:55:31 GMT
I agree that Guhle currently does not compare favourably to HOF defencemen just by coming into the NHL as a 21 yr old and playing top pairing minutes on his wrong side. It may be a good idea to sign him to a cheap show me deal and then trade him while his value is still reasonable for a middle six forward which we need more. Young second, possible first pairing guys who can play either side are a dime a dozen anyway. It was much wiser to get the two forwards who each had half a season of good results but were held back by injuries and performance slumps signed to long term deals before they start producing consistently.
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Post by claremont on Jul 20, 2024 21:26:45 GMT
Daniel Sprong to be signed by the Canucks - $975k one year deal. He would have easily fit with the Habs but figure HuGo have a better impact deal coming or not interested in a 1 year patch deal at the expense of blocking one of our development prospects
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RCAF48
Captain Kirk
Posts: 458
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Post by RCAF48 on Jul 20, 2024 22:44:34 GMT
One of our hockey guys might have pointed out to Hughes that Sprong was only seen in the Red Wings Dzone two or three times last season.
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Post by maasart on Jul 22, 2024 17:15:55 GMT
One of our hockey guys might have pointed out to Hughes that Sprong was only seen in the Red Wings Dzone two or three times last season. haha, yup. Hoffman 2.0
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RCAF48
Captain Kirk
Posts: 458
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Post by RCAF48 on Jul 25, 2024 4:29:09 GMT
Edmonton hires Stan Bowman............. !!! How can any Edmonton player trust management on any issue. IMO Bowman was lucky to escape jail time and if indeed he has become a better person there are many places where he could find meaningful employment other than back in the league that he besmirched through his arrogant, self serving behavior which contributed directly to two young individuals and at least one minor being sexually assaulted. This league..........there are many young smart hockey people out there who actually care about the sport and its' people but the NHL old boy's cabal looks past them to rehire a disgraced retread.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
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Post by regis on Jul 25, 2024 13:52:46 GMT
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Post by claremont on Jul 28, 2024 11:37:26 GMT
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