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Post by habsalways on Sept 21, 2023 16:15:40 GMT
Was Mesar at centre? Ive noticed they've been playing him alternating centre & wing... wonder what the long term plan there is... Can't say that I'm very high on Mesar. He may have skills, but he's soft and small. RHP & Simoneau are much griitier players with some skill and I expect they'll do much better. Can only have so many smurfs on the team, and that includes defensemen. A few other players we could have snagged, that were rated higher. There were exactly 6 players taken in between the Habs selecting Mesar at 26th and Beck at 33rd. None of which were as safe a bet as Beck or have as high a potential ceiling as Mesar. www.habseyesontheprize.com/filip-mesar-2022-nhl-draft-prospect-profile-scouting-report-rankings-stats-high-risk-forward/At the end of the first round, where the Canadiens will select for a second time, there’s a number of safe bets. Players like Owen Beck or Noah Õstlund will potentially be there, and they represent well-established, “safer” picks. For Montreal, however, there’s the chance to go for a higher-risk pick in the form of Filip Mešár and take the chance on his very high ceiling.
So Ostlund was taken16th overall, so he was long gone. So if the safer picks was Owen Beck at 26 ... we still wound up with Owen Beck and Mesar. As to the 6 players taken in between Beck and Mesar ... 3 euro players ranked ahead of Mesar but with less of a ceiling, all of whom dropped significantly in the draft, 2 of whom in your words would be "smurfs". So Mesar before them is simply a preference for position (Rightwing/Center) and perceived ceiling. The other 3 were NA skaters .. 2 Leftwings, which we have an over abundance of ... Isaac Howard who was ranked 9th among NA skaters (Beck was 10th) ... and Reid Schaefer who was ranked at 31 so lower than both Mesar and Beck. And last was Lamoureux, a giant D man who was predicted to go in the mid 2nd round. So when I analyze our 26th and 33rd picks ... we got the two best players for our needs. Nobody taken after Beck can I see that would have been ranked higher than Mesar.
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Post by claremont on Sept 22, 2023 12:50:35 GMT
Looks like Joshua Roy just keeps improving and working out the kinks in his game. I'm really looking forward to see what he can do against men in Laval, maybe he does have a shot at the NHL after all. Agree. I remain hopeful on Roy. To my eye, he has to improve his skating and engagement vs. looking a little lackadaisical / lazy / entitled at times. There's no question in my mind that he has some offense and ability to find space / positioning but there's a lot of players that seem to have that trait of being more power play specialists (Hoffman anyone?). I hope he can develop those other parts of his game in Laval, as the Montreal fan base appreciates effort plus talent.
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Post by BigTed3 on Sept 23, 2023 0:57:05 GMT
Can't say that I'm very high on Mesar. He may have skills, but he's soft and small. RHP & Simoneau are much griitier players with some skill and I expect they'll do much better. Can only have so many smurfs on the team, and that includes defensemen. A few other players we could have snagged, that were rated higher. There were exactly 6 players taken in between the Habs selecting Mesar at 26th and Beck at 33rd. None of which were as safe a bet as Beck or have as high a potential ceiling as Mesar. www.habseyesontheprize.com/filip-mesar-2022-nhl-draft-prospect-profile-scouting-report-rankings-stats-high-risk-forward/At the end of the first round, where the Canadiens will select for a second time, there’s a number of safe bets. Players like Owen Beck or Noah Õstlund will potentially be there, and they represent well-established, “safer” picks. For Montreal, however, there’s the chance to go for a higher-risk pick in the form of Filip Mešár and take the chance on his very high ceiling.
So Ostlund was taken16th overall, so he was long gone. So if the safer picks was Owen Beck at 26 ... we still wound up with Owen Beck and Mesar. As to the 6 players taken in between Beck and Mesar ... 3 euro players ranked ahead of Mesar but with less of a ceiling, all of whom dropped significantly in the draft, 2 of whom in your words would be "smurfs". So Mesar before them is simply a preference for position (Rightwing/Center) and perceived ceiling. The other 3 were NA skaters .. 2 Leftwings, which we have an over abundance of ... Isaac Howard who was ranked 9th among NA skaters (Beck was 10th) ... and Reid Schaefer who was ranked at 31 so lower than both Mesar and Beck. And last was Lamoureux, a giant D man who was predicted to go in the mid 2nd round. So when I analyze our 26th and 33rd picks ... we got the two best players for our needs. Nobody taken after Beck can I see that would have been ranked higher than Mesar. As I said at the time of the draft, I would have taken Hutson 26th overall, and if the draft had fallen in a similar manner such that Howard was gone by 33, I probably would have gone back and taken another D man like Luneau, Casey, or Salomonsson, or else a high-risk, high-reward player like Trikozov, Goyette, or Haight. At 62, I had targeted Adam Sykora in most of my mocks, and he was there at that pick. So I might have ended up with something like Hutson, Luneau, and Sykora instead of Mesar, Beck, and Hutson...
All that to say, I am extremely thankful we backed into Hutson at 62, as I felt he was a 1st-round talent and a big steal where we got him. And while I liked Howard and Luneau and others, Beck has turned out to be a pleasant surprise and as much as I was ambivalent about the Mesar pick, seeing as I saw Hutson as being worth the 26th pick, I can live with Mesar being the guy I equate to the 62nd pick. He's got a shot at becoming an NHLer, though I don't have high hopes he'll ever be a star.
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Post by habsalways on Sept 23, 2023 17:47:17 GMT
As I said at the time of the draft, I would have taken Hutson 26th overall, and if the draft had fallen in a similar manner such that Howard was gone by 33, I probably would have gone back and taken another D man like Luneau, Casey, or Salomonsson, or else a high-risk, high-reward player like Trikozov, Goyette, or Haight. At 62, I had targeted Adam Sykora in most of my mocks, and he was there at that pick. So I might have ended up with something like Hutson, Luneau, and Sykora instead of Mesar, Beck, and Hutson...
All that to say, I am extremely thankful we backed into Hutson at 62, as I felt he was a 1st-round talent and a big steal where we got him. And while I liked Howard and Luneau and others, Beck has turned out to be a pleasant surprise and as much as I was ambivalent about the Mesar pick, seeing as I saw Hutson as being worth the 26th pick, I can live with Mesar being the guy I equate to the 62nd pick. He's got a shot at becoming an NHLer, though I don't have high hopes he'll ever be a star.
Yeah, my main point was its never a straight forward assessment of "Mesar at 26th". Ignoring the Hutson situation, who we took 26th and 33rd compared to who was taken in between ... I'm very happy with Mesar and Beck As to Hutson ... this where he was ranked. So getting him at 62 really wasn't a stretch and given his size, despite his offensive talent, I'd have questioned us taking him higher than the 3rd round. Bob McKenzie’s (TSN) Rankings: 72nd Dobber Prospects April Rankings: 53rd McKeen’s Hockey: 63rd Craig Button’s (TSN) March Rankings: 56th Mesar at 26th, he in fact dropped in the draft TSN/Bob McKenzie: 22nd McKeen’s Hockey: 12th Sportsnet: 17th Dobber Prospects: 12th And Owen Beck at 33 was on target or could even be considered a "stretch" Peter Baracchini’s March Rankings: 34th Andrew Forbes’ March Rankings: 35th Matthew Zator’s February Rankings: 39th SMAHT Scouting: 43rd Bob McKenzie’s Mid-Season Rankings: 39th Dobber Prospects Mid- Season Rankings: 45th
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Post by BigTed3 on Sept 23, 2023 21:22:55 GMT
As I said at the time of the draft, I would have taken Hutson 26th overall, and if the draft had fallen in a similar manner such that Howard was gone by 33, I probably would have gone back and taken another D man like Luneau, Casey, or Salomonsson, or else a high-risk, high-reward player like Trikozov, Goyette, or Haight. At 62, I had targeted Adam Sykora in most of my mocks, and he was there at that pick. So I might have ended up with something like Hutson, Luneau, and Sykora instead of Mesar, Beck, and Hutson... All that to say, I am extremely thankful we backed into Hutson at 62, as I felt he was a 1st-round talent and a big steal where we got him. And while I liked Howard and Luneau and others, Beck has turned out to be a pleasant surprise and as much as I was ambivalent about the Mesar pick, seeing as I saw Hutson as being worth the 26th pick, I can live with Mesar being the guy I equate to the 62nd pick. He's got a shot at becoming an NHLer, though I don't have high hopes he'll ever be a star.
Yeah, my main point was its never a straight forward assessment of "Mesar at 26th". Ignoring the Hutson situation, who we took 26th and 33rd compared to who was taken in between ... I'm very happy with Mesar and Beck As to Hutson ... this where he was ranked. So getting him at 62 really wasn't a stretch and given his size, despite his offensive talent, I'd have questioned us taking him higher than the 3rd round. Bob McKenzie’s (TSN) Rankings: 72nd Dobber Prospects April Rankings: 53rd McKeen’s Hockey: 63rd Craig Button’s (TSN) March Rankings: 56th Mesar at 26th, he in fact dropped in the draft TSN/Bob McKenzie: 22nd McKeen’s Hockey: 12th Sportsnet: 17th Dobber Prospects: 12th And Owen Beck at 33 was on target or could even be considered a "stretch" Peter Baracchini’s March Rankings: 34th Andrew Forbes’ March Rankings: 35th Matthew Zator’s February Rankings: 39th SMAHT Scouting: 43rd Bob McKenzie’s Mid-Season Rankings: 39th Dobber Prospects Mid- Season Rankings: 45th I don't disagree with any of this. We definitely selected guys in line with where they were ranked by many of the scouting sites, and I don't think any of them were major reaches. That said, rankings are not always helpful for individual players, they're more useful in predicting likelihoods of success (ie players in the top 10 are more likely to succeed than players 11-20 and so on). And when you start to get down past the first 15-20 picks, there is a lot more subjectivity in how teams will view different players. Team needs sometimes come into play, and there is data that supports the fact that scouts and teams often overrate bigger players and underrate smaller ones. Given that the major concern with Hutson was size (and that medically, there was a plausible hypothesis that he would grow further), there seemed to be a lot more upside there.
And so some of this comes down to philosophy. Do you want the player who has a 75% chance of becoming an NHLer but is almost certainly going to be a depth player or do you want the player who has a 50% chance of becoming an NHLer but has a higher chance of becoming a star if he does hit? My personal philosophy is that ceiling matters more. it's possible to sign or acquire depth players when you need them, but the best teams have strong cores (2 strong/elite centers, a 25+ minute #1 D man who can play all situations, a sniper who can score 40+ goals, etc.). This is why I preferred a player like Hutson, who has the potential to be a true puck mover and PP quarterback. There's risk, but the reward is higher too.
With Mesar, the question is what the upside is. He is good at a lot things (skating, shot, agility, etc.) but is he great at something? I'm not sure. I think there's a lot of work to do for him to become a top 6 player. The flip side to that argument is the same thing I've said over and over here, which is that people have very high expectations for picks in the lower half of the first round, even though statistically, they flop just as often as they hit. People have blasted our picking the likes of Scherbak, Poehling, etc. but when you really look back at who else was available, the strong picks that were left over were few and far between and most of the best players chosen after our flopped picks were not guys other teams ranked highly, they were random diamonds in the rough chosen later. For example, we hear the "why did the Habs choose Nathan Beaulieu when they could have had Kucherov?"... well Beaulieu was chosen 17th overall and the players chosen right after him included the likes of Mark McNeill, Oscar Klefbom, Connor Murphy, and Stefan Noesen. No stars there. Kucherov was chosen 58th overall, so teams across the NHL felt 40 other players were likely to end up being a better player than Kucherov, including Tampa Bay taking Namestnikov at 27. If Tampa knew Kucherov would be as good as he turned out to be, they would have taken him at 27 or even tried to move up to get him. Likewise, after Scherbak it was players like Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville, Lemieux, and Hawryluk. None of those guys, even if we had picked a slightly better player than Scherbak, would have been franchise-altering players.
All that to say that while I myself might not have taken Mesar, the odds of any player taken at that pick range becoming a star are low. Yurov was a guy I liked as a draft faller (probably a top 15 talent in the draft who fell because of the Russia situation) but he went at 24. Howard was another whom we passed on. Kulich has looked pretty decent since the draft but was by no means as well-perceived at the draft as he is now. So I won't blame the Habs for picking Mesar there. IMO, there's much more to discuss about the Slafkovsky and Reinbacher selections than there is the crapshoot that is the latter half of the first round and beyond.
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Post by habsalways on Sept 24, 2023 2:32:12 GMT
I don't disagree with any of this. We definitely selected guys in line with where they were ranked by many of the scouting sites, and I don't think any of them were major reaches. That said, rankings are not always helpful for individual players, they're more useful in predicting likelihoods of success (ie players in the top 10 are more likely to succeed than players 11-20 and so on). And when you start to get down past the first 15-20 picks, there is a lot more subjectivity in how teams will view different players. Team needs sometimes come into play, and there is data that supports the fact that scouts and teams often overrate bigger players and underrate smaller ones. Given that the major concern with Hutson was size (and that medically, there was a plausible hypothesis that he would grow further), there seemed to be a lot more upside there.
And so some of this comes down to philosophy. Do you want the player who has a 75% chance of becoming an NHLer but is almost certainly going to be a depth player or do you want the player who has a 50% chance of becoming an NHLer but has a higher chance of becoming a star if he does hit? My personal philosophy is that ceiling matters more. it's possible to sign or acquire depth players when you need them, but the best teams have strong cores (2 strong/elite centers, a 25+ minute #1 D man who can play all situations, a sniper who can score 40+ goals, etc.). This is why I preferred a player like Hutson, who has the potential to be a true puck mover and PP quarterback. There's risk, but the reward is higher too.
With Mesar, the question is what the upside is. He is good at a lot things (skating, shot, agility, etc.) but is he great at something? I'm not sure. I think there's a lot of work to do for him to become a top 6 player. The flip side to that argument is the same thing I've said over and over here, which is that people have very high expectations for picks in the lower half of the first round, even though statistically, they flop just as often as they hit. People have blasted our picking the likes of Scherbak, Poehling, etc. but when you really look back at who else was available, the strong picks that were left over were few and far between and most of the best players chosen after our flopped picks were not guys other teams ranked highly, they were random diamonds in the rough chosen later. For example, we hear the "why did the Habs choose Nathan Beaulieu when they could have had Kucherov?"... well Beaulieu was chosen 17th overall and the players chosen right after him included the likes of Mark McNeill, Oscar Klefbom, Connor Murphy, and Stefan Noesen. No stars there. Kucherov was chosen 58th overall, so teams across the NHL felt 40 other players were likely to end up being a better player than Kucherov, including Tampa Bay taking Namestnikov at 27. If Tampa knew Kucherov would be as good as he turned out to be, they would have taken him at 27 or even tried to move up to get him. Likewise, after Scherbak it was players like Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville, Lemieux, and Hawryluk. None of those guys, even if we had picked a slightly better player than Scherbak, would have been franchise-altering players.
All that to say that while I myself might not have taken Mesar, the odds of any player taken at that pick range becoming a star are low. Yurov was a guy I liked as a draft faller (probably a top 15 talent in the draft who fell because of the Russia situation) but he went at 24. Howard was another whom we passed on. Kulich has looked pretty decent since the draft but was by no means as well-perceived at the draft as he is now. So I won't blame the Habs for picking Mesar there. IMO, there's much more to discuss about the Slafkovsky and Reinbacher selections than there is the crapshoot that is the latter half of the first round and beyond.
Yup, people hear "1st round" and immediately project stardom. Top 5? sure. Top 10, maybe ... after that cross your fingers. From 26th onwards for that draft, nobody really jumped out. I think the biggest draw for Mesar was both his potential and the fact he has chemistry with the guy we drafted 1st overall . I'm odd in that I love both the Slaf and Rienbacher picks for different reasons. For Slaf, I was never sold on Wright being anything more than a poor mans Danault. If Wright wasn't playing in the OHL and overly covered by the Ontario centric Sportsnet/TSN I don't think he gets ranked as high as he did. Now ... we can debate Slaf, Nemec or Cooley and to be honest I would have been happy with any of those 3. As to Reinbacher, I think he's going to develop into our top D and potentiall be one of the top two way defenders in the NHL
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Post by ramcharger440 on Sept 24, 2023 3:10:47 GMT
I don't disagree with any of this. We definitely selected guys in line with where they were ranked by many of the scouting sites, and I don't think any of them were major reaches. That said, rankings are not always helpful for individual players, they're more useful in predicting likelihoods of success (ie players in the top 10 are more likely to succeed than players 11-20 and so on). And when you start to get down past the first 15-20 picks, there is a lot more subjectivity in how teams will view different players. Team needs sometimes come into play, and there is data that supports the fact that scouts and teams often overrate bigger players and underrate smaller ones. Given that the major concern with Hutson was size (and that medically, there was a plausible hypothesis that he would grow further), there seemed to be a lot more upside there.
And so some of this comes down to philosophy. Do you want the player who has a 75% chance of becoming an NHLer but is almost certainly going to be a depth player or do you want the player who has a 50% chance of becoming an NHLer but has a higher chance of becoming a star if he does hit? My personal philosophy is that ceiling matters more. it's possible to sign or acquire depth players when you need them, but the best teams have strong cores (2 strong/elite centers, a 25+ minute #1 D man who can play all situations, a sniper who can score 40+ goals, etc.). This is why I preferred a player like Hutson, who has the potential to be a true puck mover and PP quarterback. There's risk, but the reward is higher too.
With Mesar, the question is what the upside is. He is good at a lot things (skating, shot, agility, etc.) but is he great at something? I'm not sure. I think there's a lot of work to do for him to become a top 6 player. The flip side to that argument is the same thing I've said over and over here, which is that people have very high expectations for picks in the lower half of the first round, even though statistically, they flop just as often as they hit. People have blasted our picking the likes of Scherbak, Poehling, etc. but when you really look back at who else was available, the strong picks that were left over were few and far between and most of the best players chosen after our flopped picks were not guys other teams ranked highly, they were random diamonds in the rough chosen later. For example, we hear the "why did the Habs choose Nathan Beaulieu when they could have had Kucherov?"... well Beaulieu was chosen 17th overall and the players chosen right after him included the likes of Mark McNeill, Oscar Klefbom, Connor Murphy, and Stefan Noesen. No stars there. Kucherov was chosen 58th overall, so teams across the NHL felt 40 other players were likely to end up being a better player than Kucherov, including Tampa Bay taking Namestnikov at 27. If Tampa knew Kucherov would be as good as he turned out to be, they would have taken him at 27 or even tried to move up to get him. Likewise, after Scherbak it was players like Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville, Lemieux, and Hawryluk. None of those guys, even if we had picked a slightly better player than Scherbak, would have been franchise-altering players.
All that to say that while I myself might not have taken Mesar, the odds of any player taken at that pick range becoming a star are low. Yurov was a guy I liked as a draft faller (probably a top 15 talent in the draft who fell because of the Russia situation) but he went at 24. Howard was another whom we passed on. Kulich has looked pretty decent since the draft but was by no means as well-perceived at the draft as he is now. So I won't blame the Habs for picking Mesar there. IMO, there's much more to discuss about the Slafkovsky and Reinbacher selections than there is the crapshoot that is the latter half of the first round and beyond.
Yup, people hear "1st round" and immediately project stardom. Top 5? sure. Top 10, maybe ... after that cross your fingers. From 26th onwards for that draft, nobody really jumped out. I think the biggest draw for Mesar was both his potential and the fact he has chemistry with the guy we drafted 1st overall . I'm odd in that I love both the Slaf and Rienbacher picks for different reasons. For Slaf, I was never sold on Wright being anything more than a poor mans Danault. If Wright wasn't playing in the OHL and overly covered by the Ontario centric Sportsnet/TSN I don't think he gets ranked as high as he did. Now ... we can debate Slaf, Nemec or Cooley and to be honest I would have been happy with any of those 3. As to Reinbacher, I think he's going to develop into our top D and potentiall be one of the top two way defenders in the NHL I agree on Reinbacher he looks like the real deal if he develops right the sky is the limit as for Slaf I think he is going to be good but it will take a little bit for him to get there.
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Post by habsalways on Sept 27, 2023 2:09:25 GMT
I agree on Reinbacher he looks like the real deal if he develops right the sky is the limit as for Slaf I think he is going to be good but it will take a little bit for him to get there. Having seen Mailloux play now ... I think we have 2 RHD for the long term in these young guns
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Post by ramcharger440 on Sept 27, 2023 2:20:14 GMT
I like Mailloux but he needs more time yet to get his defensive game in order the offence is there!
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Post by claremont on Sept 30, 2023 18:46:43 GMT
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Post by claremont on Sept 30, 2023 21:17:59 GMT
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Post by electron58 on Oct 2, 2023 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by electron58 on Oct 6, 2023 18:06:02 GMT
The Laval Rocket announced on Friday that nine players have been cut from training camp, four forwards and five defensemen.
Forwards Isaac Dufort (QMJHL) Ty Smilanic Alex-Olivier Voyer (Trois-Rivières) Nolan Yaremko (Trois-Rivières)
Defensemen Stanislav Demin Eric Hjorth (Trois-Rivières) Noah Laaouan (Trois-Rivières) Andrew Nielsen (Trois-Rivières) Christopher Merisier-Ortiz (Trois-Rivières)
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Post by maasart on Oct 6, 2023 18:32:22 GMT
Roy, Mesar, Kidney, Farrell, Mysak, Mailloux, Struble, Trudeau - probably one of Norlinder or Xhekaj... this is an exciting Rockets team.
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rkgoalie
Little Viking
If it was easy, it would not be fun
Posts: 85
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Post by rkgoalie on Oct 6, 2023 19:18:43 GMT
Roy, Mesar, Kidney, Farrell, Mysak, Mailloux, Struble, Trudeau - probably one of Norlinder or Xhekaj... this is an exciting Rockets team. could be a great season for the laval rockets
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Post by electron58 on Oct 7, 2023 10:13:08 GMT
The Laval Rocket assigned forwards Alex-Olivier Voyer and Nolan Yaremko, and defensemen Noah Laaouan and Christopher Merisier-Ortiz to the Trois-Rivières Lions. Released forwards Isaac Dufort and Ty Smilanic, and defensemen Stanislav Demin, Eric Hjorth and Andrew Nielsen from camp.
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Post by electron58 on Oct 7, 2023 21:26:33 GMT
Laval plays their second of two preseason games tomorrow (Sunday)
Players left at Laval's camp: 17 Forwards, 8 Defensemen, & 4 Goalies.
F: Roy, Farrell, Mesar, Davidson, Kidney, Simoneau, Condotta, Mysak, Legare, Andersson, Maillet, Stephens, Bourque, Gignac, McKay, Parker-Jones & Novak.
D: Mailloux, Struble, Trudeau, Touigny, Beaudin, Galipeau, Bisson & Keeper.
G: Dobes, Mann, Emond & Vrbetic.
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Post by electron58 on Oct 8, 2023 14:20:40 GMT
Lane Hutson Scores OT Winner in Season Opener. Boston University 3 Bentley University 2 (Final OT)
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Post by electron58 on Oct 9, 2023 15:49:47 GMT
Laval plays their second of two preseason games tomorrow (Sunday) Players left at Laval's camp: 17 Forwards, 8 Defensemen, & 4 Goalies. F: Roy, Farrell, Mesar, Davidson, Kidney, Simoneau, Condotta, Mysak, Legare, Andersson, Maillet, Stephens, Bourque, Gignac, McKay, Parker-Jones & Novak. D: Mailloux, Struble, Trudeau, Touigny, Beaudin, Galipeau, Bisson & Keeper. G: Dobes, Mann, Emond & Vrbetic. Sunday afternoon at Place Bell, the Rocket won 5-2 against the Belleville Senators to conclude its preparatory schedule.
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Post by electron58 on Oct 10, 2023 4:08:28 GMT
The Laval Rocket assigned forwards Alex-Olivier Voyer and Nolan Yaremko, and defensemen Noah Laaouan and Christopher Merisier-Ortiz to the Trois-Rivières Lions. Released forwards Isaac Dufort and Ty Smilanic, and defensemen Stanislav Demin, Eric Hjorth and Andrew Nielsen from camp. Forward Ty Smilanic signed with the Trois-Rivières Lions of the ECHL.
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