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Post by maasart on Jan 31, 2024 19:53:14 GMT
In what world does an impending UFA, who is 29 years old, has scored 14 points in his last 12 games (35 points in 49 games on the year) has previously been a PPG player (or close to) several times in his career and is a centre, NOT bring back something significant. Add to that the fact that at his current salary, if Hughes decides to retain, he would actually be at league minimum and a team could replace their #12 forward with Monahan's salary & play him in their top 6. If Engels actually said this, he's way off base imho. It looks like he was referring to Pearson. Gah, it looks like i cant read.
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Post by ramcharger440 on Jan 31, 2024 20:01:38 GMT
It looks like he was referring to Pearson. Gah, it looks like i cant read. LOL! easy there!
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Post by claremont on Jan 31, 2024 21:24:27 GMT
Besides Lindholm of Calgary, the Ducks have centre Adam Henrique (soon to be 34) on an expiring UFA - cap hit $5.8M. He has 15g, 32 points in 48 games and even though 33 might be a better player than the younger Monahan (13g, 35 points in 49 games). However I have a hard time believing Henrique is better value vs. Monahan's cap hit of $1.985M. Lindholm was drafted #4, and Monahan drafted #5 in 2013, and Lindholm has the $4.85M cap hit I still think HuGo are in the driver's seat on this one, unless Calgary retains salary on Lindholm to match Monahan, or the Ducks retain salary on Henrique to match Monahan.
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Post by maasart on Feb 1, 2024 1:02:23 GMT
Besides Lindholm of Calgary, the Ducks have centre Adam Henrique (soon to be 34) on an expiring UFA - cap hit $5.8M. He has 15g, 32 points in 48 games and even though 33 might be a better player than the younger Monahan (13g, 35 points in 49 games). However I have a hard time believing Henrique is better value vs. Monahan's cap hit of $1.985M. Lindholm was drafted #4, and Monahan drafted #5 in 2013, and Lindholm has the $4.85M cap hit I still think HuGo are in the driver's seat on this one, unless Calgary retains salary on Lindholm to match Monahan, or the Ducks retain salary on Henrique to match Monahan. Monahan is cheaper, more versatile and has more points than either Henrique or Lindholm (albeit less goals and they are all pretty close) but the big thing Monahan has going for him is that he's heating up. Its not just 35 points on the year - he's got like 14 in his last 12 games. Hughes could easily spin that as "he's healthy and getting back to the PPG player he once was" which, frankly, isnt that much of a stretch. Like you, i think Hugo has a really good chance here & if they play their cards right we could be walking away with a few assets which would ease the pain of losing a really dynamic player in Sean Monahan.
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Post by joehabsjoe on Feb 1, 2024 2:01:56 GMT
Sounds like Lindholm to Vancouver for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, a 1st in 24 and a conditional 4th in 24. How's that for a haul?
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Feb 1, 2024 2:28:14 GMT
👆👆I’ve heard of Kuzmenko . He did really well last year ,points wise . This year I don’t know , his points have fallen off . The other two guys I’ve never heard of The 1st was expected .
The conditional 4 th next year …🤷♂️ a throw in.
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Post by ramcharger440 on Feb 1, 2024 2:30:02 GMT
Wow!
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Post by claremont on Feb 1, 2024 2:31:29 GMT
Sounds like Lindholm to Vancouver for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, a 1st in 24 and a conditional 4th in 24. How's that for a haul?
what a deal for Calgary - Brzustewicz is lighting it up in the OHL this year Good in Vancouver- not scared to overpay I like the thoughts for Monahan
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Post by jenniferrocket on Feb 1, 2024 2:45:49 GMT
So. Is that a similar package to what we might expect for Monahan?
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Post by claremont on Feb 1, 2024 2:49:52 GMT
So. Is that a similar package to what we might expect for Monahan? I hope it sets a bar but Canucks traded a roster player with term in Kuzmenko who has term for next year and $5.5m. Canucks actually saved some cap room vs Lindholm addition. Canucks still have room for another addition
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Post by claremont on Feb 1, 2024 3:36:31 GMT
So. Is that a similar package to what we might expect for Monahan? I’ll rephrase my earlier remark. Calgary Flames took on a bloated contract with 1 more year at $5.5M for Kuzmenko who was in Tocchet’s coaching dog house. Fair to say he was an under performing reclamation project. So if you split this deal into components, I’ll suggest that a promising prospect of Brzustewicz was acquired by Calgary for taking in that cap hit. I’ll suggest that Lindholm in isolation was acquired for the 1st round conditional 2024 Vancouver pick and a 3rd round pick of Joni Jurmo who may not be an nhl player when he matures. My belief is that by comparison and cap hit, Monahan will get either a first round conditional 2024 pick or a top prospect (not both) and a 2nd round or 3rd round pick.
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Post by ChiLla on Feb 1, 2024 9:47:11 GMT
So. Is that a similar package to what we might expect for Monahan? I’ll rephrase my earlier remark. Calgary Flames took on a bloated contract with 1 more year at $5.5M for Kuzmenko who was in Tocchet’s coaching dog house. Fair to say he was an under performing reclamation project. So if you split this deal into components, I’ll suggest that a promising prospect of Brzustewicz was acquired by Calgary for taking in that cap hit. I’ll suggest that Lindholm in isolation was acquired for the 1st round conditional 2024 Vancouver pick and a 3rd round pick of Joni Jurmo who may not be an nhl player when he matures. My belief is that by comparison and cap hit, Monahan will get either a first round conditional 2024 pick or a top prospect (not both) and a 2nd round or 3rd round pick. It's a bit of a gamble for sure but I don't think Kuzmenko's value is completely negative. I really haven't seen him play much but he posted really strong numbers last season and is still on pace for ~40 points despite the issues with Tocchet and decreased TOI, so he should fit in really well with Huberdeau All kidding aside, if he bounces back and ends up around ~60 points next season, it's a pretty good deal for Calgary (plus they could trade him again at next year's deadline). If not, well, it's just one more year, so the risk is manageable I think.
I agree with your assessment on Monahan though and I'd probably rather take the top prospect+picks right away instead of some future draft pick with a ton of conditions attached. With Lindhom off the board, there could definitely be a bidding war though, which also puts Hughes in a bit of a conundrum: Do you trade Monahan now for the best offer you can get at this point in time or do you wait it out and risk another injury? I for one am very happy that it's not my decision to make
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Post by ramcharger440 on Feb 1, 2024 16:48:45 GMT
I’ll rephrase my earlier remark. Calgary Flames took on a bloated contract with 1 more year at $5.5M for Kuzmenko who was in Tocchet’s coaching dog house. Fair to say he was an under performing reclamation project. So if you split this deal into components, I’ll suggest that a promising prospect of Brzustewicz was acquired by Calgary for taking in that cap hit. I’ll suggest that Lindholm in isolation was acquired for the 1st round conditional 2024 Vancouver pick and a 3rd round pick of Joni Jurmo who may not be an nhl player when he matures. My belief is that by comparison and cap hit, Monahan will get either a first round conditional 2024 pick or a top prospect (not both) and a 2nd round or 3rd round pick. It's a bit of a gamble for sure but I don't think Kuzmenko's value is completely negative. I really haven't seen him play much but he posted really strong numbers last season and is still on pace for ~40 points despite the issues with Tocchet and decreased TOI, so he should fit in really well with Huberdeau All kidding aside, if he bounces back and ends up around ~60 points next season, it's a pretty good deal for Calgary (plus they could trade him again at next year's deadline). If not, well, it's just one more year, so the risk is manageable I think.
I agree with your assessment on Monahan though and I'd probably rather take the top prospect+picks right away instead of some future draft pick with a ton of conditions attached. With Lindhom off the board, there could definitely be a bidding war though, which also puts Hughes in a bit of a conundrum: Do you trade Monahan now for the best offer you can get at this point in time or do you wait it out and risk another injury? I for one am very happy that it's not my decision to make I think if you can make a deal soon it gives you some time to evaluate the players involved as long as you feel you are getting good value at the time. Injury is a risk that has bitten us hard in the recent past!
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Post by claremont on Feb 1, 2024 17:06:01 GMT
It's a bit of a gamble for sure but I don't think Kuzmenko's value is completely negative. I really haven't seen him play much but he posted really strong numbers last season and is still on pace for ~40 points despite the issues with Tocchet and decreased TOI, so he should fit in really well with Huberdeau All kidding aside, if he bounces back and ends up around ~60 points next season, it's a pretty good deal for Calgary (plus they could trade him again at next year's deadline). If not, well, it's just one more year, so the risk is manageable I think.
I agree with your assessment on Monahan though and I'd probably rather take the top prospect+picks right away instead of some future draft pick with a ton of conditions attached. With Lindhom off the board, there could definitely be a bidding war though, which also puts Hughes in a bit of a conundrum: Do you trade Monahan now for the best offer you can get at this point in time or do you wait it out and risk another injury? I for one am very happy that it's not my decision to make I think if you can make a deal soon it gives you some time to evaluate the players involved as long as you feel you are getting good value at the time. Injury is a risk that has bitten us hard in the recent past! I agree on both counts. I would not be surprised to hear Monahan pulled out of a game for precautionary reasons. I'm of the opinion that HuGo will want to do this deal fairly quickly after the allstar break and give the team and players a chance to thank and say good luck / goodbye to Monahan. If we get close to a deal of what we want - 1st pick or top prospect, plus a 2nd or 3rd, then take the deal and not risk the injury. We are at the stage where we cannot be greedy. Shop the offer around the league once, and then pull the trigger!
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Post by maasart on Feb 1, 2024 19:31:37 GMT
I think if you can make a deal soon it gives you some time to evaluate the players involved as long as you feel you are getting good value at the time. Injury is a risk that has bitten us hard in the recent past! I agree on both counts. I would not be surprised to hear Monahan pulled out of a game for precautionary reasons. I'm of the opinion that HuGo will want to do this deal fairly quickly after the allstar break and give the team and players a chance to thank and say good luck / goodbye to Monahan. If we get close to a deal of what we want - 1st pick or top prospect, plus a 2nd or 3rd, then take the deal and not risk the injury. We are at the stage where we cannot be greedy. Shop the offer around the league once, and then pull the trigger! Agree. There's the potential to add a core piece - either a top 4 RHD or a top 6 forward - and we need to make that move. I think Hughes will get the deal done & we'll be happy with it.
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Post by ramcharger440 on Feb 1, 2024 20:20:44 GMT
I agree on both counts. I would not be surprised to hear Monahan pulled out of a game for precautionary reasons. I'm of the opinion that HuGo will want to do this deal fairly quickly after the allstar break and give the team and players a chance to thank and say good luck / goodbye to Monahan. If we get close to a deal of what we want - 1st pick or top prospect, plus a 2nd or 3rd, then take the deal and not risk the injury. We are at the stage where we cannot be greedy. Shop the offer around the league once, and then pull the trigger! Agree. There's the potential to add a core piece - either a top 4 RHD or a top 6 forward - and we need to make that move. I think Hughes will get the deal done & we'll be happy with it. Yeah it will hurt us this season but the idea is to set ourselves up as quickly as possible with the right players. If Monahan was younger I would keep him as he is a great fit for us but he is getting close to 30 and has been hurt as much as it sucks for now he will have been one of those guys we went and got that gave us a lot of good returns.
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Post by maasart on Feb 1, 2024 22:27:39 GMT
Agree. There's the potential to add a core piece - either a top 4 RHD or a top 6 forward - and we need to make that move. I think Hughes will get the deal done & we'll be happy with it. Yeah it will hurt us this season but the idea is to set ourselves up as quickly as possible with the right players. If Monahan was younger I would keep him as he is a great fit for us but he is getting close to 30 and has been hurt as much as it sucks for now he will have been one of those guys we went and got that gave us a lot of good returns. Agree. you know i really like Monahan but the age doesnt add up. Frankly i think we should move Anderson, Savard and maybe matheson too (not all at once) but i know we also need some vets. I guess you could always sign some bottom 6 vets ufa if you need the leadership. Even a guy like Wideman who hasnt even played this year is apparently a huge locker-room help for the young guys.
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Post by BigTed3 on Feb 2, 2024 2:47:44 GMT
I think Hughes will consider the trade deadline a success if he can find good deals for Monahan, Pearson, and Allen. Would it be nice to move out an Anderson, Gallagher, Savard, Evans, Matheson, or Armia? Sure, but I think KH will be patient on those players and will be willing to look at moves this off-season or next TD if he has to.
The Lindholm trade helps us in a few ways... one, it was done early, so it means that teams that were looking for a center are now well-aware they lost option 1A and the supply for top 6 centers just dropped off immensely. Monahan is easily the next-best player available, and the demand for him probably outweighs the supply at this point. I think some teams will also see the haul for Lindholm as being a fair number of assets and will be compelled to up their offers to get closer to what Calgary got. The perception in the media is that Lindholm is more valuable than Monahan, but the numbers tell a different story and I really think we have to come back to the fact that Monahan is on a much cheaper contract, so the fact Calgary didn't retain any money is a thing here. I saw some talk about how Kuzmenko has negative value and is costing the Canucks, but he would have value if he were on a cheaper contract. If you had Kuzmenko at 3M a year, I think teams would have bit on him with only a year and a half left on his deal. So now imagine that Lindholm cost 2.5M less as well... if part of the deal was Lindholm at 4.9M and Kuzmenko at 5.5M, that would be fairly equivalent to Monahan at 1.9M and Kuzmenko at 2.5M. That's the offset in salaries. And at 2.5M, Kuzmenko is a positive asset, not a negative one. So I'm not viewing Kuzmenko as canceling out the assets Calgary got back, I'm viewing Kuzmenko as canceling out the salary Vancouver took on by not having Calgary retain in the deal. That means the Habs that in theory, if Monahan and Lindholm were similar players, the Habs would get a similar return (a middle 6 roster player, 1st rounder, 4th rounder, and two prospects) just by virtue of the fact Monahan's contract is more than twice as good as Lindholm's.
In any case, I think the consensus is that Monahan will fetch a bit less, but the takeaway I have from this is that Monahan at 1.9M isn't being given away for anything less than a 1st rounder (or equivalent) and a decent prospect. Forget the tier 2 prospect and forget the 4th rounder, but the rest has to be in the same stratosphere. Now one negative is that Vancouver is off the table for Monahan, and Lekkerimaki is really one of the top targets we should have had at the deadline. Now, if you want Lekkerimaki, it would depend on whether Vancouver is interested in a D man of ours like Matheson or Savard. But there are still teams out there who need a centre and who might be interested in Monahan more than ever. Winnipeg remains a good target for me. I think one of Barlow or Lambert and our own 2nd rounder is a good start to that conversation. Colorado is still in the mix. Byram is a conversation starter. A 1st + Olausson is a conversation starter. If Boston puts forth Poitras and a high pick, that's workable. If Carolina offers a 1st plus someone like a Trikozov, a Morrow, an Unger-Sorum, etc. that's a thought. If the Rangers put Othmann and a 1st out there. So I think there are still a number of options that exist for us.
The last point I'll make is this: it now behooves us, as it did last year, to prop up some of the teams in our division a bit. With Calgary looking like they'll outright tank next year, we will almost certainly end up with Florida's 2025 1st rounder as part of the original Monahan trade. Anything we can do to bolster TB, Bos, Det, Ott, Buf, or Tor helps us indirectly. So if it means sending Monahan, Matheson, Savard, etc. to a division rival and propping them up short term while taking away futures from them, that could be doubly helpful to us. Make them stronger when they're fighting Florida, make them weaker when they're fighting against us in a few years. I think it's a consideration at the very least.
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Post by electron58 on Feb 2, 2024 4:04:28 GMT
The Philadelphia Flyers are taking calls on veteran forward Scott Laughton, according to TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger. Dreger adds that the Flyers are not eager to trade him but general manager Daniel Briere is gauging interest given the relatively (thin centre) market. The Oakville, Ont., native is signed is signed through 2025-26 at a cap hit of $3 million.
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Post by claremont on Feb 2, 2024 15:42:39 GMT
I think Hughes will consider the trade deadline a success if he can find good deals for Monahan, Pearson, and Allen. Would it be nice to move out an Anderson, Gallagher, Savard, Evans, Matheson, or Armia? Sure, but I think KH will be patient on those players and will be willing to look at moves this off-season or next TD if he has to. The Lindholm trade helps us in a few ways... one, it was done early, so it means that teams that were looking for a center are now well-aware they lost option 1A and the supply for top 6 centers just dropped off immensely. Monahan is easily the next-best player available, and the demand for him probably outweighs the supply at this point. I think some teams will also see the haul for Lindholm as being a fair number of assets and will be compelled to up their offers to get closer to what Calgary got. The perception in the media is that Lindholm is more valuable than Monahan, but the numbers tell a different story and I really think we have to come back to the fact that Monahan is on a much cheaper contract, so the fact Calgary didn't retain any money is a thing here. I saw some talk about how Kuzmenko has negative value and is costing the Canucks, but he would have value if he were on a cheaper contract. If you had Kuzmenko at 3M a year, I think teams would have bit on him with only a year and a half left on his deal. So now imagine that Lindholm cost 2.5M less as well... if part of the deal was Lindholm at 4.9M and Kuzmenko at 5.5M, that would be fairly equivalent to Monahan at 1.9M and Kuzmenko at 2.5M. That's the offset in salaries. And at 2.5M, Kuzmenko is a positive asset, not a negative one. So I'm not viewing Kuzmenko as canceling out the assets Calgary got back, I'm viewing Kuzmenko as canceling out the salary Vancouver took on by not having Calgary retain in the deal. That means the Habs that in theory, if Monahan and Lindholm were similar players, the Habs would get a similar return (a middle 6 roster player, 1st rounder, 4th rounder, and two prospects) just by virtue of the fact Monahan's contract is more than twice as good as Lindholm's. In any case, I think the consensus is that Monahan will fetch a bit less, but the takeaway I have from this is that Monahan at 1.9M isn't being given away for anything less than a 1st rounder (or equivalent) and a decent prospect. Forget the tier 2 prospect and forget the 4th rounder, but the rest has to be in the same stratosphere. Now one negative is that Vancouver is off the table for Monahan, and Lekkerimaki is really one of the top targets we should have had at the deadline. Now, if you want Lekkerimaki, it would depend on whether Vancouver is interested in a D man of ours like Matheson or Savard. But there are still teams out there who need a centre and who might be interested in Monahan more than ever. Winnipeg remains a good target for me. I think one of Barlow or Lambert and our own 2nd rounder is a good start to that conversation. Colorado is still in the mix. Byram is a conversation starter. A 1st + Olausson is a conversation starter. If Boston puts forth Poitras and a high pick, that's workable. If Carolina offers a 1st plus someone like a Trikozov, a Morrow, an Unger-Sorum, etc. that's a thought. If the Rangers put Othmann and a 1st out there. So I think there are still a number of options that exist for us. The last point I'll make is this: it now behooves us, as it did last year, to prop up some of the teams in our division a bit. With Calgary looking like they'll outright tank next year, we will almost certainly end up with Florida's 2025 1st rounder as part of the original Monahan trade. Anything we can do to bolster TB, Bos, Det, Ott, Buf, or Tor helps us indirectly. So if it means sending Monahan, Matheson, Savard, etc. to a division rival and propping them up short term while taking away futures from them, that could be doubly helpful to us. Make them stronger when they're fighting Florida, make them weaker when they're fighting against us in a few years. I think it's a consideration at the very least. - I am not so sure Vancouver is off the table. They are rumoured to be less than enamoured with Zadonov who carries a $3.75M cap hit. We could see a double up if they decided to pick up Monahan plus say Jordan Harris as we take Zadonov with salary retention and Lekkermiaki, plus a 2nd or 3rd. Depends on how aggressive they want to be.
- Byram is a LHD. Not so sure we would want Byram to overcrowd our left side, and play him on our RHD side as he is talented. I would much rather have Calum Ritchie's potential unless we are truly confident Byram elevates our RHD side. Known commodity over rules the risk/need of Ritchie?
If I am handicapping the teams that will bid for Monahan and based on my contenders prospects chart in an earlier post, my order would be: A) NY Rangers - large need with Chytil out B) Colorado - Nicushkin rebound question mark - need for top 6 forward C) Dallas - Have the assets to make a move (Picks plus centres, not a lot of cap room so Monahan is very attractive) D) Winnipeg - In a dog fight with Colorado and Dallas. Have the assets and cap room. GM Cheveldayoff hasn't navigated this team into 2nd or 3rd round of playoffs in 4 years. Overdue for shoving some chips in. E) Carolina - Isn't getting much centre production from Kotkaniemi or Jordan Staal, thus a need for Monahan. Have cap room, picks, some prospects but we would an "Oscar" to complete the odd couple lol if we picked up Felix Unger! F) Detroit - I will put them as a longshot - on the bubble with Tampa Bay for the 4th in the Atlantic or the last wild card spot. A lot of cap room and assets. Not a need at centre - probably play Sean or Veleno at LW. Have their own 1st round pick or Boston's (DeBrincat trade), or could offer Kasper or Danielson.
For all the talk on Boston - they have given up a lot of draft capital in previous years re; 2024 pick given for Bertuzzi. Don't pick until the 4th rd in 2024, and only have a 1st and 3rd round pick in 2025. Short on prospects so I don't see them giving up Poitras or Lysell. Similarly the Oilers, last year of Holland? I see bigger needs for them on defense and not as much at forward/centre. Toronto? Seems they have a far bigger need on Defense as well.
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