regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Jun 21, 2024 1:09:57 GMT
👆 I read somewhere Carolina doesn’t want picks or young players ( ? ) they want someone established IMO that would only leave Matheson but I don’t think Hughes is open to trading him …..yet
And our so called called established forwards Scratch Gallagher, Anderson , Armia , Dvorak etc IMO
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 21, 2024 2:23:51 GMT
👆 I read somewhere Carolina doesn’t want picks or young players ( ? ) they want someone established IMO that would only leave Matheson but I don’t think Hughes is open to trading him …..yet And our so called called established forwards Scratch Gallagher, Anderson , Armia , Dvorak etc IMO
Yes, Carolina wants to compete right away, so it makes sense (though they could take picks and prospects and shuffle them off in another deal to get someone established and I've presented some ideas for 3-way deals before too). I personally think the Habs have some veterans with value (Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Newhook, Armia) that they could offer as part of trades, but if they don't want to do that or if it doesn't match what Carolina wants, then OSing Necas and giving up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd could be an option.
Let's say the offer is 1 year, 9M AAV. If you're the Canes, your two options become
1. Match the offer. You're then unable to trade Necas for the entire season and he becomes a UFA in a year. You lose any chance of being able to trade him for assets. Maybe you can re-sign him in a year, but given he's already announced he wants a trade, that isn't likely to happen.
2. Don't match the offer and take the picks.
Now if I'm the Habs, I'm not sure I make that OS. I'd only do it if I thought I had a legit chance at the post-season, which I don't think we do. I think OSing Necas would have to be coupled with other moves like signing Stamkos and trading a LHD like Guhle for a top 4 RHD, for example. But if you had the ducks lined up, then giving up a pick in the 12-20 range probably wouldn't be that bad. It's the risk that it ends up being a lottery pick that wins and which you can't protect in any way in an offer sheet that worries me. I'm not sure I'm taking that risk for a supporting cast player like Necas. if I'm giving up a lottery pick, I want a legit star coming back the other way... among RFAs this coming year, going after a Seider or a Byfield might make more sense in terms of a need, but Detroit and LA would match those offers at 9M AAV.
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Post by maasart on Jun 21, 2024 2:36:26 GMT
Reports from Lebrun that teams may be entertaining offersheeting Necas in the range where it's still under 9M, such that the compensation owed is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. He believes Carolina is asking for more than this back and that teams might see the OS as the best solution. The reports are that a 1-year OS would force the Canes to match, be unable to trade him for the first year, then potentially lose him to unrestricted free agency. Not a great solution for Carolina. Only about 10-12 teams have the picks to be able to make the OS, including Montreal, and some believe that Carolina might be refusing to negotiate with Mtl because of Tom Dundon, so they have nothing to lose by sending in the OS. The Habs do have extra picks in upcoming drafts, so they can afford to lose a 2nd and 3rd. The 1st would hurt if it were a lottery pick. But the question is whether Montreal thinks they can add Necas and other parts to get to the playoffs right away next year. It's an alternative to trading a player like Matheson, Guhle, Caufield, or Xhekaj for Necas. Its intriguing and i agree that the idea of 1-2-3 for a player like Necas if we believe we are a playoff team next year is not bad at all...but... i am convinced Hughes has a "suzuki cap" and i dont think he's going over that for Necas.
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Post by maasart on Jun 21, 2024 2:39:08 GMT
👆 I read somewhere Carolina doesn’t want picks or young players ( ? ) they want someone established IMO that would only leave Matheson but I don’t think Hughes is open to trading him …..yet And our so called called established forwards Scratch Gallagher, Anderson , Armia , Dvorak etc IMO
Yes, Carolina wants to compete right away, so it makes sense (though they could take picks and prospects and shuffle them off in another deal to get someone established and I've presented some ideas for 3-way deals before too). I personally think the Habs have some veterans with value (Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Newhook, Armia) that they could offer as part of trades, but if they don't want to do that or if it doesn't match what Carolina wants, then OSing Necas and giving up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd could be an option.
Let's say the offer is 1 year, 9M AAV. If you're the Canes, your two options become
1. Match the offer. You're then unable to trade Necas for the entire season and he becomes a UFA in a year. You lose any chance of being able to trade him for assets. Maybe you can re-sign him in a year, but given he's already announced he wants a trade, that isn't likely to happen.
2. Don't match the offer and take the picks.
Now if I'm the Habs, I'm not sure I make that OS. I'd only do it if I thought I had a legit chance at the post-season, which I don't think we do. I think OSing Necas would have to be coupled with other moves like signing Stamkos and trading a LHD like Guhle for a top 4 RHD, for example. But if you had the ducks lined up, then giving up a pick in the 12-20 range probably wouldn't be that bad. It's the risk that it ends up being a lottery pick that wins and which you can't protect in any way in an offer sheet that worries me. I'm not sure I'm taking that risk for a supporting cast player like Necas. if I'm giving up a lottery pick, I want a legit star coming back the other way... among RFAs this coming year, going after a Seider or a Byfield might make more sense in terms of a need, but Detroit and LA would match those offers at 9M AAV.
There is a 3rd option i believe? During the week the team has to respond to the OS, the team can trade the player to the team who signed him to the OS. So, technically, we could sign him and Carolina could then negotiate a deal with us. That said, i think if we signed an offer sheet with Carolina Dundon would lose his freaking mind & would definitely match out of spite even if it means losing Necas for nothing next year.
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Post by habsalways on Jun 21, 2024 16:10:25 GMT
There is a 3rd option i believe? During the week the team has to respond to the OS, the team can trade the player to the team who signed him to the OS. So, technically, we could sign him and Carolina could then negotiate a deal with us. That said, i think if we signed an offer sheet with Carolina Dundon would lose his freaking mind & would definitely match out of spite even if it means losing Necas for nothing next year. I think given the history with the Canes we don't dare OS Necas. Dundon will indeed freakout, and our next RFA he'll OS out of spite.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 22, 2024 13:31:14 GMT
Friedman reporting that Rutger McGroarty is returning to Michigan for a 3rd year and that talks between him and the Jets are non-existent. He says the Jets are looking to trade his rights and that given they don't have a 1st rounder in this year's draft, that might be an asset they're looking to find.
Now we don't know if McGroarty specifically doesn't like Winnipeg or if he doesn't want to play in Canada or something else, but he's a player who would fit what Kent Hughes is trying to find... a bit of grit and leadership and a player who is a couple of years out from his draft and a step further ahead than a 2024 draft pick. I wonder if Hughes looks into why McGroarty isn't signing and whether Montreal would be a possibility for him. He could flip Winnipeg's 1st rounder back to them in that sort of deal.
Add one more story to the list of why drafting American collegiate players is riskier than drafting Russians. The NHL needs to close that loophole of American players being allowed to become free agents if they stay at University long enough. Completely unfair to the teams that draft these players, and it seems to hurt Canadian teams more than American ones (given these American kids who hold out often want to play in specific places in the US).
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Post by claremont on Jun 22, 2024 18:20:43 GMT
Friedman reporting that Rutger McGroarty is returning to Michigan for a 3rd year and that talks between him and the Jets are non-existent. He says the Jets are looking to trade his rights and that given they don't have a 1st rounder in this year's draft, that might be an asset they're looking to find. Now we don't know if McGroarty specifically doesn't like Winnipeg or if he doesn't want to play in Canada or something else, but he's a player who would fit what Kent Hughes is trying to find... a bit of grit and leadership and a player who is a couple of years out from his draft and a step further ahead than a 2024 draft pick. I wonder if Hughes looks into why McGroarty isn't signing and whether Montreal would be a possibility for him. He could flip Winnipeg's 1st rounder back to them in that sort of deal. Add one more story to the list of why drafting American collegiate players is riskier than drafting Russians. The NHL needs to close that loophole of American players being allowed to become free agents if they stay at University long enough. Completely unfair to the teams that draft these players, and it seems to hurt Canadian teams more than American ones (given these American kids who hold out often want to play in specific places in the US). Agree on the risk factor. I was never superbly impressed by McGroarty on skating skill but he works hard, has some size, and leadership qualities. Pretty smart with the puck, defensively responsible, good passing and shot. Can play both wings and is another one that shoots left but plays his off wing. I would'nt mind that trade. I thought he was over hyped a bit at pick #14 in his draft year because of all the talent on that USNTDP, but he's produced some good results in the NCAA with Michigan. Would have thought Midwest boy (Nebraska), might prefer closer to home vs Montreal foreign country and culture so there is some risk he does not sign with us.
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Post by HTL on Jun 22, 2024 23:33:06 GMT
Read one today where we take Laine at full salary, plus the 4th pick, for our 5th pick.
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RCAF48
Captain Kirk
Posts: 359
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Post by RCAF48 on Jun 23, 2024 1:03:57 GMT
I believe the rule that allows NHL bound NCAA athletes some control over their bodies applies equally to all nationalities, not just Americans as previously mentioned.......even Russians and more importantly (to me) Canadian kids. Most Canadian kids are manipulated by minor league coaches, NHL teams, agents and often their parents into giving up control over their future to satisfy others' wishes. If they have a chance to choose for themselves they should do so and choices made at 21 or 22 are often better than those made at 18. At least mine were There is indeed a risk to teams that some drafted players will end up playing for a team of their choosing other then the team that drafted them and that is not a bad thing. The Russian kid also has the added advantage of using the KHL as leverage to tell NHL teams which ones he will play for if drafted and that is also not a bad thing. The CHL player can refuse to sign and he becomes a free agent after 2 years but depending on his age he may have to go back into the draft and end up with an even worst organization or may end up with no place to play after being aged out of the CHL.........teams and the NHL set the rules. An NCAA player has the benefit of a place to play longer while getting an education and taking the extra time to decide what he wishes to do with his future. I think that is an important perk of NCAA hockey. The rules are not unfair to NHL teams...........they agreed to them and have large legal staffs more than eager to tilt the scales in the team's interest every time. The player has only himself and sometimes his mother to fight in his corner. Everyone else takes their pound of flesh. It appears McGroarty doesn't want to go to the AHL (another closed shop in the old boy's network) and disagrees with Winnipeg's development plan for him so he may bet on himself to make it somewhere else. Good for him, he has taken responsibility for his future and will live with the consequences, good or bad, of plotting his own course.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 23, 2024 13:23:06 GMT
The Athletic posting an article about biggest storylines of the off-season, one of which is the Sabres needing to take a jump. They quoted their two biggest needs as being a "rugged RHD to pair with Dahlin or Power" and a 3rd line center to replace Mittelstadt. The Sabres have lots of cap space and lots of prospects to offer up. They've also said pick 11 is on the table.
I wonder if Hughes can't parlay this into a trade. We have David Savard as a rugged RHD. We have Dvorak and Evans to offer as 3Cs, and we have Beck in the wings to replace whoever we lose. Perhaps something like this could work:
Dvorak, Savard, and Wpg 1st rounder (pick 26) to Buffalo for the Sabres' choice of Krebs, Kulich, or Ostlund and pick 11
The deal would add the missing veteran leadership that Buffalo wants in exchange for a young player and dropping down 15 slots in the draft. Savard could do wonders to stabilize the youth of that D corps and Dvorak fills a need for them as a two-way player. Neither player brings a longterm commitment/bad contract. Krebs is a player I could see Hughes targeting, although if Buffalo prefers to give up a prospect without NHL experience, we could be open to other options as well.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,095
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Post by regis on Jun 23, 2024 13:37:53 GMT
The issue with that suggestion is that I believe both Savard and Dvorak are UFA after 2024/25 - so unless the Sabres resign them or trade them at the playoff deadline then they’re back to where they started . And Dvorak is an injury machine 🤣
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Post by maasart on Jun 24, 2024 17:35:51 GMT
There's a rumour circulating that Toffoli (and his wife) really want to come back to Montreal. Of course its also been rumoured that he's looking for 4 years so i dont see a fit there.
Considering Toff was the first major move Hughes made, im not convinced he would have any interest in TT. The return was good but its not like it was above FMV, so i just think Hughes felt Toffoli didnt work with the type of team he was trying to set up. Good player, nice skills but slooow compared with the rest of our current roster.
Dont see it happening but I do believe that he and his wife would both like to return: they seemed to really love the city.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 24, 2024 18:17:32 GMT
There's a rumour circulating that Toffoli (and his wife) really want to come back to Montreal. Of course its also been rumoured that he's looking for 4 years so i dont see a fit there. Considering Toff was the first major move Hughes made, im not convinced he would have any interest in TT. The return was good but its not like it was above FMV, so i just think Hughes felt Toffoli didnt work with the type of team he was trying to set up. Good player, nice skills but slooow compared with the rest of our current roster. Dont see it happening but I do believe that he and his wife would both like to return: they seemed to really love the city. I've also seen rumors of the Rangers being involved and of reunions in either LA or Vancouver being possible. He'll have options.
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Post by BigTed3 on Jun 24, 2024 18:20:15 GMT
Other rumors out there:
- Some reports that Pesce intends to head to NJ once free agency opens. Might take the Devils out of the market for Matheson, but increase Carolina's need to find a D man.
- Reports that Toronto is thinking more of moving Marner than extending him. Frank Seravalli said a move could happen this week. LA rumored to be involved here too, but Vegas appears to be the front-runner. Marner would have to waive his no-trade clause to be sent out. Leafs reportedly showing interest in Pietrangelo or Theodore as the key player in the return, and frankly, I think they'd be better-off boasting a Theodore on their blue-line than a Marner up front. They need better balance to that line-up. I'm less sure why Vegas would deplete their D corps to add Marner.
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Post by maasart on Jun 24, 2024 20:08:23 GMT
Other rumors out there: - Some reports that Pesce intends to head to NJ once free agency opens. Might take the Devils out of the market for Matheson, but increase Carolina's need to find a D man. - Reports that Toronto is thinking more of moving Marner than extending him. Frank Seravalli said a move could happen this week. LA rumored to be involved here too, but Vegas appears to be the front-runner. Marner would have to waive his no-trade clause to be sent out. Leafs reportedly showing interest in Pietrangelo or Theodore as the key player in the return, and frankly, I think they'd be better-off boasting a Theodore on their blue-line than a Marner up front. They need better balance to that line-up. I'm less sure why Vegas would deplete their D corps to add Marner. Agree on both points. Toronto needs to spread the wealth in terms of high end players and the costly contracts but also - why would Vegas do it?
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Post by HTL on Jun 24, 2024 20:52:03 GMT
I've been hearing the Theodore rumours for a couple weeks from Leaf fans around here and i told them they were nuts if they thought Vegas was leaning that way. Not sure why they would create a big hole like that.
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Post by maasart on Jun 24, 2024 21:01:24 GMT
I've been hearing the Theodore rumours for a couple weeks from Leaf fans around here and i told them they were nuts if they thought Vegas was leaning that way. Not sure why they would create a big hole like that. Unless they think Cormier or Chayka is ready to step up but even then - this is a team that has constantly made decisions "for the playoffs" - Marner is the antithesis of that type of roster. 1.11 ppg in the regular season .87ppg in the playoffs. He's supremely talented and will get you *to* the playoffs but he is not the kind of guy you can lean on during the playoffs. Now, im not saying you may not be able to mold him into a playoff performer, especially if you have skilled vets like Vegas does, but that is not the player you are acquiring, summer 2024 and no way Id give up a top end dman to get him if i was Vegas.
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rkgoalie
Little Viking
If it was easy, it would not be fun
Posts: 85
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Post by rkgoalie on Jun 24, 2024 21:51:05 GMT
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Post by maasart on Jun 24, 2024 21:59:15 GMT
Totally agree but they are locked in to him for a while now. Marner will be the casualty. Nylander is their best forward in the post season & Tavares was good when he was younger (wasnt in the post season much) but is becoming less effective year to year now.
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rkgoalie
Little Viking
If it was easy, it would not be fun
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Post by rkgoalie on Jun 24, 2024 22:44:30 GMT
Totally agree but they are locked in to him for a while now. Marner will be the casualty. Nylander is their best forward in the post season & Tavares was good when he was younger (wasnt in the post season much) but is becoming less effective year to year now. if I was in charge nylander is the only one I would keep, everyone else would be tradable for the right offer
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