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Post by BigTed3 on Dec 6, 2023 22:53:27 GMT
The rumour mill has been really quiet which is suprising since we just re-signed Monty and the team has said they havent sent Primeau down beause they are confident he'd be poached so that means we have 3 goalies & likely need to move one. Also, we have guys like Savard & Xhekaj coming back, while callups like Struble and Lindstrom were competent. Right now we may not have a ton of top 4 guys but we have arguably 9-10 NHL quality defensmen. Some of those guys are waive exempt but we may not want to send them down. Going to be interesting to see what happens but i suspect we'll see some movement before the Dec trade freeze.
There were some rumors beforehand that the Oilers were looking at Allen but that they might have wanted to make this a bigger deal and that Savard might also be a target. As such, maybe some of this is hinging on whether Savard returns in good health. It could also be Edmonton doesn't want to trade with us or prefers another option like Columbus...
But Broberg has reportedly has for a trade and while he's a lefty, he does play the right side just as often, so there could be a deal to be had around that too... Allen + Savard for Broberg + Bourgeault or Broberg + a pick. Edmonton reportedly wants to avoid giving up their 1st rounder, which could be problematic unless they want to give up two good prospects. Broberg alone isn't enough to get this done...
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Post by electron58 on Dec 6, 2023 23:13:43 GMT
The rumour mill has been really quiet which is suprising since we just re-signed Monty and the team has said they havent sent Primeau down beause they are confident he'd be poached so that means we have 3 goalies & likely need to move one. Also, we have guys like Savard & Xhekaj coming back, while callups like Struble and Lindstrom were competent. Right now we may not have a ton of top 4 guys but we have arguably 9-10 NHL quality defensmen. Some of those guys are waive exempt but we may not want to send them down. Going to be interesting to see what happens but i suspect we'll see some movement before the Dec trade freeze.
There were some rumors beforehand that the Oilers were looking at Allen but that they might have wanted to make this a bigger deal and that Savard might also be a target. As such, maybe some of this is hinging on whether Savard returns in good health. It could also be Edmonton doesn't want to trade with us or prefers another option like Columbus...
But Broberg has reportedly has for a trade and while he's a lefty, he does play the right side just as often, so there could be a deal to be had around that too... Allen + Savard for Broberg + Bourgeault or Broberg + a pick. Edmonton reportedly wants to avoid giving up their 1st rounder, which could be problematic unless they want to give up two good prospects. Broberg alone isn't enough to get this done...
Definitely have to be more salary coming back. Edmonton being tight against the cap. And do we really want Jack Campbell??? They'd have to give us too much.
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Post by BigTed3 on Dec 7, 2023 0:48:14 GMT
There were some rumors beforehand that the Oilers were looking at Allen but that they might have wanted to make this a bigger deal and that Savard might also be a target. As such, maybe some of this is hinging on whether Savard returns in good health. It could also be Edmonton doesn't want to trade with us or prefers another option like Columbus...
But Broberg has reportedly has for a trade and while he's a lefty, he does play the right side just as often, so there could be a deal to be had around that too... Allen + Savard for Broberg + Bourgeault or Broberg + a pick. Edmonton reportedly wants to avoid giving up their 1st rounder, which could be problematic unless they want to give up two good prospects. Broberg alone isn't enough to get this done...
Definitely have to be more salary coming back. Edmonton being tight against the cap. And do we really want Jack Campbell??? They'd have to give us too much.
No to Campbell. Any deal would be off for me to take him. I've already posted about how one year of his salary is on its own worth a 1st or 2nd rounder, so taking on multiple years would mean we should be asking for multiple 1st rounders just to take him on, never mind the return for what we're giving up. It's not happening.
Yes, there would need to be some salary coming back or a third party or something to make that nucleus of a trade work though.
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Post by ramcharger440 on Dec 7, 2023 1:04:39 GMT
I agree no on Campbell I really don't see Hughes taking that on though he did not get rich being stupid!
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Post by HTL on Dec 8, 2023 2:51:38 GMT
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Post by ramcharger440 on Dec 8, 2023 2:58:17 GMT
Leafs lost a goalie tonight Woll got hurt from what I heard the goalie market seems to be heating up!
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Post by HTL on Dec 8, 2023 4:11:34 GMT
Leafs lost a goalie tonight Woll got hurt from what I heard the goalie market seems to be heating up! I'd rather trade them some dirty underwear.
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Post by electron58 on Dec 8, 2023 4:48:37 GMT
Leafs lost a goalie tonight Woll got hurt from what I heard the goalie market seems to be heating up! I'd rather trade them some dirty underwear. Preferably with a goalie in them.
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Post by electron58 on Dec 8, 2023 5:08:26 GMT
Leafs lost a goalie tonight Woll got hurt from what I heard the goalie market seems to be heating up! If it's an ACL, they'll be looking for another goalie for sure. Hard to say how confident they are in Samsonov.
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Post by ramcharger440 on Dec 8, 2023 5:19:44 GMT
Leafs lost a goalie tonight Woll got hurt from what I heard the goalie market seems to be heating up! If it's an ACL, they'll be looking for another goalie for sure. Hard to say how confident they are in Samsonov. If they are they are nuts!
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Post by BigTed3 on Dec 11, 2023 17:20:48 GMT
The Fourth Period reporting that two sources have told them the Habs and Red Wings have been talking trade. No specific on who, just that the two teams have been in contact. TFP adding that (not specific to Habs), the Wings have been offering up Jonatan Berggren as trade bait to try to bring in another piece that can help them now. He's a 5'10" winger, picked in the 2nd round in 2018, who put up 15 goals in 67 NHL games last year but has spent most of this season in the AHL. With the Wings also potentially losing Larkin for a bit last night and also seeing David Perron face a 5+ game suspension, they might be in the market to try to get some forward help. I could see them improving with the additions of a Matheson or an Allen, but they have a lot of veteran D men already and I don't think they're going to prioritize that, while they have Reimer and Lyon to back up Husso already and they probably won't see Allen as being that huge an upgrade that it's worth adding a 4th goalie (or swapping in and out a 3rd one). So I'd have to figure that if Yzerman is looking into the Habs' roster, it's for one of three players: Josh Anderson, Christian Dvorak, or the guy who makes the most sense here, Sean Monahan. Monahan could help them out immediately in the top 6, he has the versatility to play center (if they need a short term fill for Larkin) or wing, and he's a cheaper, low-risk player being a UFA at the end of the year. So unless Yzerman is specifically looking at the skill set offered by an Anderson or Dvorak, then Monahan makes the most sense as a target.
Coming the other way, Detroit doesn't have its own 1st rounder this year but does have Boston's. They do have some prospects that could interest us though. In goal, they have both Trey Augustine and Sebastian Cossa as prospects. On D, I doubt we'd get to Willander or Edvinsson, but Shai Buium is a recent 2nd rounder 6'3" LHD whose brother Zeev is one of the top D prospects in the upcoming draft, and Andrew Gibson is a big 6'4" righty from the 2023 2nd round. The bigger prize would be Axel Sandin-Pellika, who was one of my favorite D prospects from last year's draft and who went 17th overall. Up front Noah Dower-Nilsson was another good prospect from last year and current Wings' center Joe Veleno grew up playing in Lac St. Louis, the same team Hughes played for as a teenager.
Which of these offers would work the best?
1. Monahan for Bos 2024 1st rounder and Andrew Gibson 2. Monahan for ASP and Noah Dower-Nilsson 3. Monahan for Veleno, Berggren, and Buium (more NHL-ready help but likely lower top end)
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Post by maasart on Dec 11, 2023 17:34:00 GMT
The Fourth Period reporting that two sources have told them the Habs and Red Wings have been talking trade. No specific on who, just that the two teams have been in contact. TFP adding that (not specific to Habs), the Wings have been offering up Jonatan Berggren as trade bait to try to bring in another piece that can help them now. He's a 5'10" winger, picked in the 2nd round in 2018, who put up 15 goals in 67 NHL games last year but has spent most of this season in the AHL. With the Wings also potentially losing Larkin for a bit last night and also seeing David Perron face a 5+ game suspension, they might be in the market to try to get some forward help. I could see them improving with the additions of a Matheson or an Allen, but they have a lot of veteran D men already and I don't think they're going to prioritize that, while they have Reimer and Lyon to back up Husso already and they probably won't see Allen as being that huge an upgrade that it's worth adding a 4th goalie (or swapping in and out a 3rd one). So I'd have to figure that if Yzerman is looking into the Habs' roster, it's for one of three players: Josh Anderson, Christian Dvorak, or the guy who makes the most sense here, Sean Monahan. Monahan could help them out immediately in the top 6, he has the versatility to play center (if they need a short term fill for Larkin) or wing, and he's a cheaper, low-risk player being a UFA at the end of the year. So unless Yzerman is specifically looking at the skill set offered by an Anderson or Dvorak, then Monahan makes the most sense as a target. Coming the other way, Detroit doesn't have its own 1st rounder this year but does have Boston's. They do have some prospects that could interest us though. In goal, they have both Trey Augustine and Sebastian Cossa as prospects. On D, I doubt we'd get to Willander or Edvinsson, but Shai Buium is a recent 2nd rounder 6'3" LHD whose brother Zeev is one of the top D prospects in the upcoming draft, and Andrew Gibson is a big 6'4" righty from the 2023 2nd round. The bigger prize would be Axel Sandin-Pellika, who was one of my favorite D prospects from last year's draft and who went 17th overall. Up front Noah Dower-Nilsson was another good prospect from last year and current Wings' center Joe Veleno grew up playing in Lac St. Louis, the same team Hughes played for as a teenager. Which of these offers would work the best? 1. Monahan for Bos 2024 1st rounder and Andrew Gibson 2. Monahan for ASP and Noah Dower-Nilsson 3. Monahan for Veleno, Berggren, and Buium (more NHL-ready help but likely lower top end) As you know, I really like Monahan and would have considered signing him to a 3 year deal but Id be very much in favour of your first 2 options. I think between them Id rather have ASP & NDN but Gibson may be the best prospect in that bunch and the 1st is never a bad thing. dont love the 3rd option - not because they arent good players, but as you mentioned, not as high of a ceiling (most likely) and this team already has some good depth, what we need is help in the top end of the lineup.
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Post by claremont on Dec 11, 2023 19:27:48 GMT
The Fourth Period reporting that two sources have told them the Habs and Red Wings have been talking trade. No specific on who, just that the two teams have been in contact. TFP adding that (not specific to Habs), the Wings have been offering up Jonatan Berggren as trade bait to try to bring in another piece that can help them now. He's a 5'10" winger, picked in the 2nd round in 2018, who put up 15 goals in 67 NHL games last year but has spent most of this season in the AHL. With the Wings also potentially losing Larkin for a bit last night and also seeing David Perron face a 5+ game suspension, they might be in the market to try to get some forward help. I could see them improving with the additions of a Matheson or an Allen, but they have a lot of veteran D men already and I don't think they're going to prioritize that, while they have Reimer and Lyon to back up Husso already and they probably won't see Allen as being that huge an upgrade that it's worth adding a 4th goalie (or swapping in and out a 3rd one). So I'd have to figure that if Yzerman is looking into the Habs' roster, it's for one of three players: Josh Anderson, Christian Dvorak, or the guy who makes the most sense here, Sean Monahan. Monahan could help them out immediately in the top 6, he has the versatility to play center (if they need a short term fill for Larkin) or wing, and he's a cheaper, low-risk player being a UFA at the end of the year. So unless Yzerman is specifically looking at the skill set offered by an Anderson or Dvorak, then Monahan makes the most sense as a target. Coming the other way, Detroit doesn't have its own 1st rounder this year but does have Boston's. They do have some prospects that could interest us though. In goal, they have both Trey Augustine and Sebastian Cossa as prospects. On D, I doubt we'd get to Willander or Edvinsson, but Shai Buium is a recent 2nd rounder 6'3" LHD whose brother Zeev is one of the top D prospects in the upcoming draft, and Andrew Gibson is a big 6'4" righty from the 2023 2nd round. The bigger prize would be Axel Sandin-Pellika, who was one of my favorite D prospects from last year's draft and who went 17th overall. Up front Noah Dower-Nilsson was another good prospect from last year and current Wings' center Joe Veleno grew up playing in Lac St. Louis, the same team Hughes played for as a teenager. Which of these offers would work the best? 1. Monahan for Bos 2024 1st rounder and Andrew Gibson 2. Monahan for ASP and Noah Dower-Nilsson 3. Monahan for Veleno, Berggren, and Buium (more NHL-ready help but likely lower top end) Let's look at this from Yzerman's point of view A) His #1 centre is Larkin - 7 more years, His #2 or #3 centre is Andrew Copp - 3 more years after his , His #3 centre is JT Compher 4 more years after this. His #4 centre is Joe Veleno (who they may not be all that enamoured with but is under RFA control, and might get 15 goals). Fabbri is more of a LW. Rasmussen is a UFA at end of this year and he is more likely a 4th line short term solution. If one looks at the Wings depth chart then have Nate Danielson #9 -2023 draft who I saw in pre-season, looked good and IMO projects as a safe #3 centre with 6-2 size, and Marco Kasper - #8 overall 2022 6-1 size, but his development has been slower. Clearly the wings have some depth at centre and could afford to give up one of these two if not Veleno. My preference would be Veleno or Danielson for Monahan. Another Centre with size would fit behind Suzuki, Dach and toss-up with Beck (assuming Dvorak and Evans not part of the long term plans) B) Wings Defense - Seider is undisputed #1 RHD, Justin Holl is there for 2 more years at RHD - probably projects as the #5/6 D. So they have a need for a 3/4 RHD longer term as Petry is on the decline. Chiarot would be their poorman's RHD cross over if they had to as he is there 2 more years. Their RHD depth options longer term are ASP (who probably fits #3/4 pairing) and Andrew Gibson. So they have some redundancy, or depth at RHD. They could afford to give one of them up. At LHD Simon Edvinsson is likely their long term LHD with Jake Walman having a solid season as interim #1. Chiarot at #3/4 and Matta here for one more year after this to help groom Edvinsson. Ghost is UFA after this year, so their LHD is not in bad shape. So for Monahan, I would consider it success if we got; 1. Your #1 above - the 2024 first round pick of Boston and Andrew Gibson 2. Veleno or Danielson or ASP plus maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick Noah Dower Nilsson's development has been stalled by shoulder surgery - another LW doesn't fit my assessment of needs
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Post by BigTed3 on Dec 11, 2023 20:18:25 GMT
The Fourth Period reporting that two sources have told them the Habs and Red Wings have been talking trade. No specific on who, just that the two teams have been in contact. TFP adding that (not specific to Habs), the Wings have been offering up Jonatan Berggren as trade bait to try to bring in another piece that can help them now. He's a 5'10" winger, picked in the 2nd round in 2018, who put up 15 goals in 67 NHL games last year but has spent most of this season in the AHL. With the Wings also potentially losing Larkin for a bit last night and also seeing David Perron face a 5+ game suspension, they might be in the market to try to get some forward help. I could see them improving with the additions of a Matheson or an Allen, but they have a lot of veteran D men already and I don't think they're going to prioritize that, while they have Reimer and Lyon to back up Husso already and they probably won't see Allen as being that huge an upgrade that it's worth adding a 4th goalie (or swapping in and out a 3rd one). So I'd have to figure that if Yzerman is looking into the Habs' roster, it's for one of three players: Josh Anderson, Christian Dvorak, or the guy who makes the most sense here, Sean Monahan. Monahan could help them out immediately in the top 6, he has the versatility to play center (if they need a short term fill for Larkin) or wing, and he's a cheaper, low-risk player being a UFA at the end of the year. So unless Yzerman is specifically looking at the skill set offered by an Anderson or Dvorak, then Monahan makes the most sense as a target. Coming the other way, Detroit doesn't have its own 1st rounder this year but does have Boston's. They do have some prospects that could interest us though. In goal, they have both Trey Augustine and Sebastian Cossa as prospects. On D, I doubt we'd get to Willander or Edvinsson, but Shai Buium is a recent 2nd rounder 6'3" LHD whose brother Zeev is one of the top D prospects in the upcoming draft, and Andrew Gibson is a big 6'4" righty from the 2023 2nd round. The bigger prize would be Axel Sandin-Pellika, who was one of my favorite D prospects from last year's draft and who went 17th overall. Up front Noah Dower-Nilsson was another good prospect from last year and current Wings' center Joe Veleno grew up playing in Lac St. Louis, the same team Hughes played for as a teenager. Which of these offers would work the best? 1. Monahan for Bos 2024 1st rounder and Andrew Gibson 2. Monahan for ASP and Noah Dower-Nilsson 3. Monahan for Veleno, Berggren, and Buium (more NHL-ready help but likely lower top end) Let's look at this from Yzerman's point of view A) His #1 centre is Larkin - 7 more years, His #2 or #3 centre is Andrew Copp - 3 more years after his , His #3 centre is JT Compher 4 more years after this. His #4 centre is Joe Veleno (who they may not be all that enamoured with but is under RFA control, and might get 15 goals). Fabbri is more of a LW. Rasmussen is a UFA at end of this year and he is more likely a 4th line short term solution. If one looks at the Wings depth chart then have Nate Danielson #9 -2023 draft who I saw in pre-season, looked good and IMO projects as a safe #3 centre with 6-2 size, and Marco Kasper - #8 overall 2022 6-1 size, but his development has been slower. Clearly the wings have some depth at centre and could afford to give up one of these two if not Veleno. My preference would be Veleno or Danielson for Monahan. Another Centre with size would fit behind Suzuki, Dach and toss-up with Beck (assuming Dvorak and Evans not part of the long term plans) B) Wings Defense - Seider is undisputed #1 RHD, Justin Holl is there for 2 more years at RHD - probably projects as the #5/6 D. So they have a need for a 3/4 RHD longer term as Petry is on the decline. Chiarot would be their poorman's RHD cross over if they had to as he is there 2 more years. Their RHD depth options longer term are ASP (who probably fits #3/4 pairing) and Andrew Gibson. So they have some redundancy, or depth at RHD. They could afford to give one of them up. At LHD Simon Edvinsson is likely their long term LHD with Jake Walman having a solid season as interim #1. Chiarot at #3/4 and Matta here for one more year after this to help groom Edvinsson. Ghost is UFA after this year, so their LHD is not in bad shape. So for Monahan, I would consider it success if we got; 1. Your #1 above - the 2024 first round pick of Boston and Andrew Gibson 2. Veleno or Danielson or ASP plus maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick Noah Dower Nilsson's development has been stalled by shoulder surgery - another LW doesn't fit my assessment of needs
If I'm Yzerman, I'm not particularly interested in giving up Kasper or Danielson. I wasn't a huge fan of either one of those players going as high as Detroit picked them, as I saw them more as safe middle 6 picks rather than having high-end potential to be 1Cs, but I think Detroit really likes those players and plans on building around them with their young D core. I'm not sure he's giving either guy up, and frankly, I don't know that those are answers to the Habs' issue of missing an elite scoring center either. I think Detroit's D prospect pool is more intriguing to us, particularly with respect to whether there's someone there who can help us on the right side (ASP or Gibson as examples). With respect to D, I would guess Yzerman views Seider, Edvinsson, and Wallinder as his three untouchables. Why not ASP or Gibson then? Because like Hughes, I think Yzerman wants to accelerate the re-build to some degree without giving up on his core players (add Raymond and Debrincat to Larkin/Kasper/Danielson and those 3 D men I just mentioned and I think that's what he views as his core). But ASP is probably a couple of years away, as are Gibson and Dower-Nilsson, so I think there might be some wiggle room to part with those players. The Habs are also probably a year or two behind Detroit in their re-build, so they may be more willing to accept younger prospects and still see those as more valuable than pure draft picks.
As for the Wings' current D, a lot of it is just frankly not good. Chiarot is bad. Holl is worse. Petry is over the hill. I do really like Walman as a depth D man, and he was actually a player I advocated for Montreal to target a few years ago, as he had really strong advanced stats in St. Louis. So he could still be a player there. Maybe the Wings could also see value in a player like Harris, Xhekaj, or Barron going back the other way, guys who are NHL-ready but younger than their current mish-mash of veteran depth and still cheap. So could you do Monahan and Harris (if healthy soon) for Bos 1st, Gibson, and one of Veleno or Berggren for example? Or for ASP, Dower-Nilsson, and Veleno coming back as another example?
Lastly, I'll say that the Habs wing depth isn't great going forward and I wouldn't sniff at adding some organizational depth there if those players have at least a shot at becoming top 6 guys. A this point, we have Caufield and Slafkovsky as a top 6 winger and potential top 6 winger respectively. But past that, it's thin. Newhook is middle 6. Ylonen could be middle 6. RHP is probably bottom 6. Roy is a question mark and might slot in anywhere in the top 9 but most likely middle 6. Gallagher, Anderson, Armia, Pearson, and Monahan are all almost certainly gone by the time the Habs are contenders. Past that, are we moving Dach back to wing at some point because it doesn't seem like that's the Habs' plan? Are we banking on Heineman, Mesar, Tuch, Farrell, or someone else to become top 6 players? We have guys with shots to get there but a lot of them are smaller players or don't have the goal-scoring prowess to match what Caufield gives us or even what Slaf could be capable of. So I'd absolutely be curious about acquiring more winger help for the future too.
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Post by ramcharger440 on Dec 11, 2023 20:29:55 GMT
I agree with this as well our biggest need moving forward is on the wings we need a couple of high quality winger for sure! This is not to say we don't need some touch ups elsewhere in the lineup but wing is our soft spot right now!
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Post by maasart on Dec 11, 2023 20:59:10 GMT
I agree with this as well our biggest need moving forward is on the wings we need a couple of high quality winger for sure! This is not to say we don't need some touch ups elsewhere in the lineup but wing is our soft spot right now! I would actually say our biggest need is #1 centre. I love Suzuki and Dach but imho neither is a true #1. I dont see anyone in our pipeline that is. Either guy can play RW, so there's one of your wingers. If everyone plays out the way they are developing you have: Slafkovsky ________ Caufield ________- Suzuki - Dach Thats a great start but if you could fill that top spot at centre, you're waaaay ahead on the rebuild. There may be some options in the upcoming draft (especially if we end up as a lottery pick). I do think there's a chance that Hughes is still exploring other trade scenarios - and, there IS an outside chance that either Suzuki or Dach can take that next step but right now, I think a true #1 centre is our biggest need. I think that our 2nd biggest is RHD. I think Reinbacher looks like he should become the real deal and I think we have plenty of potential depth/filler in guys like Mailloux, Barron, Kovy etc - but I think we really want another top tier RD. Right now at LD we have a plethora of potential & I feel very confident about that side but we need bascially everyone on RD to work out & thats just not going to happen. Would love to be a fly on the wall in Hughes' office because im certain he's well aware of these issues & probably has some interesting offers on the table.
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Post by BigTed3 on Dec 11, 2023 22:47:12 GMT
I agree with this as well our biggest need moving forward is on the wings we need a couple of high quality winger for sure! This is not to say we don't need some touch ups elsewhere in the lineup but wing is our soft spot right now! I agree with this as well our biggest need moving forward is on the wings we need a couple of high quality winger for sure! This is not to say we don't need some touch ups elsewhere in the lineup but wing is our soft spot right now! I would actually say our biggest need is #1 centre. I love Suzuki and Dach but imho neither is a true #1. I dont see anyone in our pipeline that is. Either guy can play RW, so there's one of your wingers. If everyone plays out the way they are developing you have: Slafkovsky ________ Caufield ________- Suzuki - Dach Thats a great start but if you could fill that top spot at centre, you're waaaay ahead on the rebuild. There may be some options in the upcoming draft (especially if we end up as a lottery pick). I do think there's a chance that Hughes is still exploring other trade scenarios - and, there IS an outside chance that either Suzuki or Dach can take that next step but right now, I think a true #1 centre is our biggest need. I think that our 2nd biggest is RHD. I think Reinbacher looks like he should become the real deal and I think we have plenty of potential depth/filler in guys like Mailloux, Barron, Kovy etc - but I think we really want another top tier RD. Right now at LD we have a plethora of potential & I feel very confident about that side but we need bascially everyone on RD to work out & thats just not going to happen. Would love to be a fly on the wall in Hughes' office because im certain he's well aware of these issues & probably has some interesting offers on the table. Yeah, I think our biggest need is also a 1C, which moves Dach back to the wing where he'd been great and puts Suzuki in a more comfortable 2C slot. I'd line the 4 elements of the top 4 we already have up exactly as you have them too. I do think we also need scoring wingers, but a 1C helps in that regard to some degree via the Dach shift. Past that, we do need another 30-goal man somewhere though.
As far as options, yes there's always the chance you end up with a Celebrini or a Lindstrom or so on. But past that, I've brought up Zegras as a potential option and I've brought up Kent Johnson as another. Both guys are pedigree players with scoring ability who seem to be somewhat on the outs with their respective organizations. Both teams have already drafted alternative top-line centers, so they might each undervalue their players relative to what those players would mean to us.
Ultimately, I think we need
1. A true 1C 2. A top 3 RHD 3. A 30-goal winger for the top 6 (and again, something like what Pacioretty, Cole, Radulov, or Toffoli gave us would be enough, so this could be someone you trade for or sign) 4. A starting goalie of the future (any maybe that ends up being Monty, Primeau, Dobes, or Fowler, but none of them have sold me enough yet)
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Post by maasart on Dec 11, 2023 23:01:48 GMT
I agree with this as well our biggest need moving forward is on the wings we need a couple of high quality winger for sure! This is not to say we don't need some touch ups elsewhere in the lineup but wing is our soft spot right now! I would actually say our biggest need is #1 centre. I love Suzuki and Dach but imho neither is a true #1. I dont see anyone in our pipeline that is. Either guy can play RW, so there's one of your wingers. If everyone plays out the way they are developing you have: Slafkovsky ________ Caufield ________- Suzuki - Dach Thats a great start but if you could fill that top spot at centre, you're waaaay ahead on the rebuild. There may be some options in the upcoming draft (especially if we end up as a lottery pick). I do think there's a chance that Hughes is still exploring other trade scenarios - and, there IS an outside chance that either Suzuki or Dach can take that next step but right now, I think a true #1 centre is our biggest need. I think that our 2nd biggest is RHD. I think Reinbacher looks like he should become the real deal and I think we have plenty of potential depth/filler in guys like Mailloux, Barron, Kovy etc - but I think we really want another top tier RD. Right now at LD we have a plethora of potential & I feel very confident about that side but we need bascially everyone on RD to work out & thats just not going to happen. Would love to be a fly on the wall in Hughes' office because im certain he's well aware of these issues & probably has some interesting offers on the table. Yeah, I think our biggest need is also a 1C, which moves Dach back to the wing where he'd been great and puts Suzuki in a more comfortable 2C slot. I'd line the 4 elements of the top 4 we already have up exactly as you have them too. I do think we also need scoring wingers, but a 1C helps in that regard to some degree via the Dach shift. Past that, we do need another 30-goal man somewhere though.
As far as options, yes there's always the chance you end up with a Celebrini or a Lindstrom or so on. But past that, I've brought up Zegras as a potential option and I've brought up Kent Johnson as another. Both guys are pedigree players with scoring ability who seem to be somewhat on the outs with their respective organizations. Both teams have already drafted alternative top-line centers, so they might each undervalue their players relative to what those players would mean to us.
Ultimately, I think we need
1. A true 1C 2. A top 3 RHD 3. A 30-goal winger for the top 6 (and again, something like what Pacioretty, Cole, Radulov, or Toffoli gave us would be enough, so this could be someone you trade for or sign) 4. A starting goalie of the future (any maybe that ends up being Monty, Primeau, Dobes, or Fowler, but none of them have sold me enough yet)
Agree wtih all of this. I think there's an outside chance we already have #3 & #4 - and maybe even #2 but that's really requiring all of our top RHD prospects to hit their ceilings. To get that #1 centre though, we're either going to have to draft him or trade for him. If you trade for a guy like Zegras (Assuming management thinks he has another gear) then I think its going to cost us dearly - like... Guhle + I know that would sting but you aint getting a potential #1 centre for Harris + Allen.
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Post by maasart on Dec 12, 2023 0:18:46 GMT
With our log jam at defense I wonder if Hughes would consider moving a guy like Savard. I know he's a RHD and that's our weakness, but he's also not a guy who will be here long term. I wonder if a young team like Vancouver would be interested in moving assets to get a veteran, cup-winning blueliner.
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Post by claremont on Dec 12, 2023 0:25:51 GMT
Let's look at this from Yzerman's point of view A) His #1 centre is Larkin - 7 more years, His #2 or #3 centre is Andrew Copp - 3 more years after his , His #3 centre is JT Compher 4 more years after this. His #4 centre is Joe Veleno (who they may not be all that enamoured with but is under RFA control, and might get 15 goals). Fabbri is more of a LW. Rasmussen is a UFA at end of this year and he is more likely a 4th line short term solution. If one looks at the Wings depth chart then have Nate Danielson #9 -2023 draft who I saw in pre-season, looked good and IMO projects as a safe #3 centre with 6-2 size, and Marco Kasper - #8 overall 2022 6-1 size, but his development has been slower. Clearly the wings have some depth at centre and could afford to give up one of these two if not Veleno. My preference would be Veleno or Danielson for Monahan. Another Centre with size would fit behind Suzuki, Dach and toss-up with Beck (assuming Dvorak and Evans not part of the long term plans) B) Wings Defense - Seider is undisputed #1 RHD, Justin Holl is there for 2 more years at RHD - probably projects as the #5/6 D. So they have a need for a 3/4 RHD longer term as Petry is on the decline. Chiarot would be their poorman's RHD cross over if they had to as he is there 2 more years. Their RHD depth options longer term are ASP (who probably fits #3/4 pairing) and Andrew Gibson. So they have some redundancy, or depth at RHD. They could afford to give one of them up. At LHD Simon Edvinsson is likely their long term LHD with Jake Walman having a solid season as interim #1. Chiarot at #3/4 and Matta here for one more year after this to help groom Edvinsson. Ghost is UFA after this year, so their LHD is not in bad shape. So for Monahan, I would consider it success if we got; 1. Your #1 above - the 2024 first round pick of Boston and Andrew Gibson 2. Veleno or Danielson or ASP plus maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick Noah Dower Nilsson's development has been stalled by shoulder surgery - another LW doesn't fit my assessment of needs
If I'm Yzerman, I'm not particularly interested in giving up Kasper or Danielson. I wasn't a huge fan of either one of those players going as high as Detroit picked them, as I saw them more as safe middle 6 picks rather than having high-end potential to be 1Cs, but I think Detroit really likes those players and plans on building around them with their young D core. I'm not sure he's giving either guy up, and frankly, I don't know that those are answers to the Habs' issue of missing an elite scoring center either. I think Detroit's D prospect pool is more intriguing to us, particularly with respect to whether there's someone there who can help us on the right side (ASP or Gibson as examples). With respect to D, I would guess Yzerman views Seider, Edvinsson, and Wallinder as his three untouchables. Why not ASP or Gibson then? Because like Hughes, I think Yzerman wants to accelerate the re-build to some degree without giving up on his core players (add Raymond and Debrincat to Larkin/Kasper/Danielson and those 3 D men I just mentioned and I think that's what he views as his core). But ASP is probably a couple of years away, as are Gibson and Dower-Nilsson, so I think there might be some wiggle room to part with those players. The Habs are also probably a year or two behind Detroit in their re-build, so they may be more willing to accept younger prospects and still see those as more valuable than pure draft picks.
As for the Wings' current D, a lot of it is just frankly not good. Chiarot is bad. Holl is worse. Petry is over the hill. I do really like Walman as a depth D man, and he was actually a player I advocated for Montreal to target a few years ago, as he had really strong advanced stats in St. Louis. So he could still be a player there. Maybe the Wings could also see value in a player like Harris, Xhekaj, or Barron going back the other way, guys who are NHL-ready but younger than their current mish-mash of veteran depth and still cheap. So could you do Monahan and Harris (if healthy soon) for Bos 1st, Gibson, and one of Veleno or Berggren for example? Or for ASP, Dower-Nilsson, and Veleno coming back as another example?
Lastly, I'll say that the Habs wing depth isn't great going forward and I wouldn't sniff at adding some organizational depth there if those players have at least a shot at becoming top 6 guys. A this point, we have Caufield and Slafkovsky as a top 6 winger and potential top 6 winger respectively. But past that, it's thin. Newhook is middle 6. Ylonen could be middle 6. RHP is probably bottom 6. Roy is a question mark and might slot in anywhere in the top 9 but most likely middle 6. Gallagher, Anderson, Armia, Pearson, and Monahan are all almost certainly gone by the time the Habs are contenders. Past that, are we moving Dach back to wing at some point because it doesn't seem like that's the Habs' plan? Are we banking on Heineman, Mesar, Tuch, Farrell, or someone else to become top 6 players? We have guys with shots to get there but a lot of them are smaller players or don't have the goal-scoring prowess to match what Caufield gives us or even what Slaf could be capable of. So I'd absolutely be curious about acquiring more winger help for the future too.
I'll agree to disagree on Danielson - he's a possession player that is easily putting up Dach #'s in the WHL/ I will be interested to see how he does at the WJC assuming he makes the squad. While Yzerman may be reluctant to give him up, he's a player I would covet, even though he's not an elite C which I don't think many trades would ever realistically procure. Fair point on getting another winger, but we have a plethora of small wingers. We need some size with sniping hands which is hard to find. I am hopeful Heineman can make that jump with Ylonen, less sure on Tuch. Mesar is a playmaker that might duplicate Newhook. Farrell, Kidney, Simoneau, Mysak, RHP, are all duplication to me should we pick up similar wingers and Noah Dower-Nilsson fits that mold. Agree with you on Detroit's current D, but Chiarot and Holl are there for two more seasons so their 5/6 pairing is likely set. If Edvinsson and Wallinder are their top 2 LHD then Seider and one of ASP or Gibson should be the top 2 righties. Matta and Petry are throwaways at some point with 1 year to go.
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