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Post by ramcharger440 on Dec 12, 2023 0:28:05 GMT
Sorry It's wingers for me, at some point you have to go with what you have and build out the rest of the team. I think Nick is fine as a #1 c he just needs to have two quality linemates instead of the revolving door! add to that the fact that since Dach went down we are a one line team again when it comes to offence just look at how CC gets covered now the other teams all know he is the only shooter on the team. All this to say I am not against making all positions better but lets fix the glaring holes first before we fine tune positions where we are already ok, we can make them great later.
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Post by BigTed3 on Dec 12, 2023 1:22:50 GMT
I'll agree to disagree on Danielson - he's a possession player that is easily putting up Dach #'s in the WHL/ I will be interested to see how he does at the WJC assuming he makes the squad. While Yzerman may be reluctant to give him up, he's a player I would covet, even though he's not an elite C which I don't think many trades would ever realistically procure. Fair point on getting another winger, but we have a plethora of small wingers. We need some size with sniping hands which is hard to find. I am hopeful Heineman can make that jump with Ylonen, less sure on Tuch. Mesar is a playmaker that might duplicate Newhook. Farrell, Kidney, Simoneau, Mysak, RHP, are all duplication to me should we pick up similar wingers and Noah Dower-Nilsson fits that mold. Agree with you on Detroit's current D, but Chiarot and Holl are there for two more seasons so their 5/6 pairing is likely set. If Edvinsson and Wallinder are their top 2 LHD then Seider and one of ASP or Gibson should be the top 2 righties. Matta and Petry are throwaways at some point with 1 year to go. It sounds like we don't disagree all that much about Danielson's ceiling... I'd agree that it could be in the same range as Dach, Danault, etc... a good two-way possession center. I just don't think that moves the needle all that much for me in terms of our needs versus what Yzerman is going to ask for to give him up. I'm not saying he can't be a valuable player, I just don't think that type of player helps us with our most glaring need at center. We have a good possession center in Dach. We have a good but not elite skill center in Suzuki. We have a prospect with good energy and smarts in Beck. But where's the center who is going to score 30-35 goals and put up 80 points a year? I'm not sure it's any of those guys and I'm not sure it's Danielson or Kasper either. That's all I'm saying. I don't see Yzerman trading Danielson for Monahan straight up, and I'm not willing to start throwing in other things to go after a prospect of that tier. Conversely, I think an ASP or even a Gibson could make us stronger and move the needle at RHD, as I think Mailloux is still a bit of an iffy prospect at this point and I'm not ready to declare that he'll be able to play top 4 at an NHL level. Ditto Barron. So if we're going to give up one of our best trade assets in Monahan, I'd rather go and get a guy who has a higher chance of making our top end better. |
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Post by ChiLla on Dec 13, 2023 14:25:08 GMT
Yeah, I think our biggest need is also a 1C, which moves Dach back to the wing where he'd been great and puts Suzuki in a more comfortable 2C slot. I'd line the 4 elements of the top 4 we already have up exactly as you have them too. I do think we also need scoring wingers, but a 1C helps in that regard to some degree via the Dach shift. Past that, we do need another 30-goal man somewhere though.
As far as options, yes there's always the chance you end up with a Celebrini or a Lindstrom or so on. But past that, I've brought up Zegras as a potential option and I've brought up Kent Johnson as another. Both guys are pedigree players with scoring ability who seem to be somewhat on the outs with their respective organizations. Both teams have already drafted alternative top-line centers, so they might each undervalue their players relative to what those players would mean to us.
Ultimately, I think we need
1. A true 1C 2. A top 3 RHD 3. A 30-goal winger for the top 6 (and again, something like what Pacioretty, Cole, Radulov, or Toffoli gave us would be enough, so this could be someone you trade for or sign) 4. A starting goalie of the future (any maybe that ends up being Monty, Primeau, Dobes, or Fowler, but none of them have sold me enough yet)
Agree wtih all of this. I think there's an outside chance we already have #3 & #4 - and maybe even #2 but that's really requiring all of our top RHD prospects to hit their ceilings. To get that #1 centre though, we're either going to have to draft him or trade for him. If you trade for a guy like Zegras (Assuming management thinks he has another gear) then I think its going to cost us dearly - like... Guhle + I know that would sting but you aint getting a potential #1 centre for Harris + Allen. I agree on our list of priorities, but I'm not sold on Zegras and wouldn't trade Guhle+ for him (that's what it would certainly take though). The guy is tremendously skilled but I don't think he's a better center than Suzuki and I'm not sure how his game translates to the playoffs, so that's a legit concern I'm not having with Guhle. Didn't Zegras also spend a lot of time as a winger when transitioning to the NHL? I remember there being some talk about him being better suited to the wing, which isn't really what we need but may be a byproduct of the Ducks' center depth of course. Either way, I'm not trading Guhle+ for a finesse guy with potentially diminshed value in the postseason, there's just too much risk this could turn into Drouin for Sergachev 2.0. |
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Post by maasart on Dec 13, 2023 18:13:32 GMT
Agree wtih all of this. I think there's an outside chance we already have #3 & #4 - and maybe even #2 but that's really requiring all of our top RHD prospects to hit their ceilings. To get that #1 centre though, we're either going to have to draft him or trade for him. If you trade for a guy like Zegras (Assuming management thinks he has another gear) then I think its going to cost us dearly - like... Guhle + I know that would sting but you aint getting a potential #1 centre for Harris + Allen. I agree on our list of priorities, but I'm not sold on Zegras and wouldn't trade Guhle+ for him (that's what it would certainly take though). The guy is tremendously skilled but I don't think he's a better center than Suzuki and I'm not sure how his game translates to the playoffs, so that's a legit concern I'm not having with Guhle. Didn't Zegras also spend a lot of time as a winger when transitioning to the NHL? I remember there being some talk about him being better suited to the wing, which isn't really what we need but may be a byproduct of the Ducks' center depth of course. Either way, I'm not trading Guhle+ for a finesse guy with potentially diminshed value in the postseason, there's just too much risk this could turn into Drouin for Sergachev 2.0. Yeah i totally get your reservations. Thats the tough thing though - there's always so much risk. We made out like bandits with Suzuki + Tatar + 2nd (which was later traded for 2 picks that turned into Norlinder and Leguerrier) but initially we wanted Cody Glass + Tatar. Since that time Glass has scored 59 points in 157 games. We wouldnt have looked back on that deal as fondly if we had actually gotten our plan "A" I dont actually think we'll trade Guhle. I think he's probably only behind Hutson and Reinbacher as "least likely to be traded on the blueline" but i also think Hughes knows he needs to add an elite talent at the top line centre position and i dont think he's going to luck into that. He's going to need to make a trade that we are all a little worried about... unless of course we win the draft lottery & get Cellebrini. Actually, its still possible a guy like Catton or LIndstrom could be a true top line centre and we may well be in a position to draft one. I think if it gets to the point where we are actually considering moving Guhle for an elite centre, it will be after this upcoming draft, when all other possibilities have been exhausted. |
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Post by maasart on Dec 13, 2023 19:37:49 GMT
A couple of fairly high profile bloggers (Pagnotta at the 4th period and I think Basu) have mentioned that there's definitely been trade talks between the Oilers and Habs and the Wings and habs.
It sounds like they believe the wings are interested in either Anderson or Monahan (and possibly still a goalie) but i have no idea how they'd take on either since i dont think we're in any way shape or form taking back Jack Campbell.
In the case of the red wings, it sounds like we're really interested in Jonatan Berggren - who is definitely an intriguing prospect. Detroit is a little further along in their rebuild so i could see there being a decent fit there (us giving up players in their prime for a player or two who is not quite there yet).
The other name that ive heard mentioned lately is Savard who apparently has been getting interest now that he's back & healthy.
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Post by electron58 on Dec 14, 2023 21:02:30 GMT
Running out of time before the freeze. I'm going to predict no trades before the freeze by the Habs.
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Post by electron58 on Dec 17, 2023 14:38:40 GMT
Running out of time before the freeze. I'm going to predict no trades before the freeze by the Habs. The holiday freeze kicks in on the 20th of December. |
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Post by BigTed3 on Dec 17, 2023 15:47:50 GMT
Ducks GM Pat Verbeek spotted at the Habs-Isles game yesterday. The Ducks just played the Isles earlier in the week, so it would be odd for him to have scouted the Isles separate from his team's own game against them. Many think he was there to view someone on the Habs. There were some guesses that it could have been for a goalie (but Allen and Primeau didn't play) or for Dvorak or Anderson or Armia, but none of those players really make sense for a team that's on the same re-building schedule as us.
So who does make sense for them? I've said it over and over, but their team has depth with their young centers and our team is deep with young LHD. They have Mintuykov and Zellweger down the left side as free-skating offensive D men, but they lack a more rugged LHD. Now Xhekaj was in the minors, Harris was injured, and Matheson is a bit older for their window, so it kind of leaves Guhle or Struble as potential targets. Harris was skating with the team yesterday, and the rumors were that he may be back sooner than expected. If that's the case, something has to give. I'll reiterate again that despite how much we like him, Guhle for Zegras remains a potential trade that could help both teams address areas of need...
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,272
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Post by regis on Dec 17, 2023 16:25:55 GMT
Zebras on IR , lower body injury
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Post by selteeck on Dec 17, 2023 16:50:35 GMT
Zebras on IR , lower body injury All of the zebras? So no more stupid calls/non-calls? |
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,272
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Post by regis on Dec 17, 2023 17:38:13 GMT
Zebras on IR , lower body injury All of the zebras? So no more stupid calls/non-calls? 🤣. F ‘n iPad |
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Post by electron58 on Dec 17, 2023 17:46:57 GMT
Ducks GM Pat Verbeek spotted at the Habs-Isles game yesterday. The Ducks just played the Isles earlier in the week, so it would be odd for him to have scouted the Isles separate from his team's own game against them. Many think he was there to view someone on the Habs. There were some guesses that it could have been for a goalie (but Allen and Primeau didn't play) or for Dvorak or Anderson or Armia, but none of those players really make sense for a team that's on the same re-building schedule as us. So who does make sense for them? I've said it over and over, but their team has depth with their young centers and our team is deep with young LHD. They have Mintuykov and Zellweger down the left side as free-skating offensive D men, but they lack a more rugged LHD. Now Xhekaj was in the minors, Harris was injured, and Matheson is a bit older for their window, so it kind of leaves Guhle or Struble as potential targets. Harris was skating with the team yesterday, and the rumors were that he may be back sooner than expected. If that's the case, something has to give. I'll reiterate again that despite how much we like him, Guhle for Zegras remains a potential trade that could help both teams address areas of need... I could see it. Maybe a 2 for 2 with Guhle & Zegras as the center pieces? It does seem as Anaheim wants to move Zegras but we don't necessarily want to move Guhle. Maybe in a 2 for 2 we get the little extra? I know we value our own guys more, but I think Guhle is trending to be a top 2 D which should have more value than another smallish forward although somewhat talented. Agreed. Something has to give and as much as I like Guhle.......... |
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Post by HTL on Dec 17, 2023 20:18:12 GMT
Zebras on IR , lower body injury All of the zebras? So no more stupid calls/non-calls? You still have the video review morons in Toronto to take up the slack. |
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Post by maasart on Dec 18, 2023 18:22:42 GMT
Ducks GM Pat Verbeek spotted at the Habs-Isles game yesterday. The Ducks just played the Isles earlier in the week, so it would be odd for him to have scouted the Isles separate from his team's own game against them. Many think he was there to view someone on the Habs. There were some guesses that it could have been for a goalie (but Allen and Primeau didn't play) or for Dvorak or Anderson or Armia, but none of those players really make sense for a team that's on the same re-building schedule as us. So who does make sense for them? I've said it over and over, but their team has depth with their young centers and our team is deep with young LHD. They have Mintuykov and Zellweger down the left side as free-skating offensive D men, but they lack a more rugged LHD. Now Xhekaj was in the minors, Harris was injured, and Matheson is a bit older for their window, so it kind of leaves Guhle or Struble as potential targets. Harris was skating with the team yesterday, and the rumors were that he may be back sooner than expected. If that's the case, something has to give. I'll reiterate again that despite how much we like him, Guhle for Zegras remains a potential trade that could help both teams address areas of need... I love Guhle and im not 100% sold on Zegras but its a fair deal. We'd still be left with Matheson, Hutson, Engstrom, Harris, Struble and Xhekaj on the left side and could almost certainly get quality assets for Matheson when we are ready to move him. If the team feels Zegras is as good or better than Dach/Suzuki, im down for it. We would then have a top 6 of Suzuki, CC, Zegras, Dach, Slafkovsky and either Roy or Newhook - and we'll have a good shot at adding someone into the mix this upcoming draft. I really want to keep Guhle but this would be good asset management from a 'position of strength' to a 'position of need' type scenario. Again though: our pro scouts have to believe Zegras is the real deal. He's 22 so still room to grow and similar numbers to Suzuki. Only a couple of days before the trade freeze so we'll see if something happens before Wednesday. |
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Post by claremont on Dec 18, 2023 20:26:52 GMT
www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2797425Aaron Dell signed by the Hurricanes to a PTO - their goaltending is abysmal - have to think HuGo are holding out for something, and the Canes looking for a cheap solution - post holiday trade? Wonder if Waddell and owner Tom Dundon still dislike the habs organization even though we purged Bergevin the root cause of hostility.
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Post by HTL on Dec 18, 2023 22:01:46 GMT
www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2797425Aaron Dell signed by the Hurricanes to a PTO - their goaltending is abysmal - have to think HuGo are holding out for something, and the Canes looking for a cheap solution - post holiday trade? Wonder if Waddell and owner Tom Dundon still dislike the habs organization even though we purged Bergevin the root cause of hostility. I don't see any urgency on our part to trade a goaltender. It's not like we need the spot to bring up somebody else to sit on the bench. We're not getting anything of value in return for Jake that will have any impact for us, so whatever. |
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Post by maasart on Dec 18, 2023 22:20:50 GMT
www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2797425Aaron Dell signed by the Hurricanes to a PTO - their goaltending is abysmal - have to think HuGo are holding out for something, and the Canes looking for a cheap solution - post holiday trade? Wonder if Waddell and owner Tom Dundon still dislike the habs organization even though we purged Bergevin the root cause of hostility. I don't see any urgency on our part to trade a goaltender. It's not like we need the spot to bring up somebody else to sit on the bench. We're not getting anything of value in return for Jake that will have any impact for us, so whatever. Agree. Monty is getting enough games, Jake is being managed for overworking him and I think they are ok with the limited number of games Primeau gets as they try to assess his long term viability. I dont think we'll get much for whomever we choose to trade (Allen, i would assume) but i think waiting until a team is desperate is probably the best course of action. Someone will bite. |
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Post by HTL on Dec 20, 2023 3:20:38 GMT
Jersey reporting that D Hamilton is gone for the year after undergoing surgery, opening up 9 million in Cap space. They are pretty desperate for some help in goal and they may even need to add a D man if they don't have anything decent in their system. Possible trading partner here? We have extra bodies in both those areas.
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Post by electron58 on Dec 20, 2023 6:49:45 GMT
Jersey reporting that D Hamilton is gone for the year after undergoing surgery, opening up 9 million in Cap space. They are pretty desperate for some help in goal and they may even need to add a D man if they don't have anything decent in their system. Possible trading partner here? We have extra bodies in both those areas. With all that cap room, I'm sure they will use it to get premium assets. |
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Post by electron58 on Dec 20, 2023 6:53:32 GMT
Running out of time before the freeze. I'm going to predict no trades before the freeze by the Habs. The holiday freeze kicks in on the 20th of December. The NHL's annual Holiday Roster Freeze is set to take effect Tuesday night at 11:59p.m. local in each market and run through 12:01 a.m. local on Dec. 28. No surprises...... |
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