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Post by graeme on Oct 6, 2024 15:50:14 GMT
Cowan's prediction is possible, but I think it's highly likely Mailloux is getting send down.
I could be wrong, I don't think there's much question on the main 7 dmen making the roster at this point: Matheson, Guhle, Savard, Hutson, Struble, Xhekaj, and Barron. Only real question is who among Xhekaj, Struble, and Barron spends more time in the press-box, and what the pairings look like.
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Post by graeme on Oct 6, 2024 15:53:07 GMT
Struble has outplayed Barron both last season and this camp.
Has Struble played on his off-side in the past?
I have little doubt he's making the team, was a bit surprised to see you slot him in on the right though.
The other possibility is Hutson ends up on the right - I've heard some people theorize that for highly mobile dmen who end up all over the ice, it's less important which side they line up on.
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regis
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Post by regis on Oct 6, 2024 17:08:57 GMT
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Post by maasart on Oct 6, 2024 22:37:05 GMT
Struble has outplayed Barron both last season and this camp.
Has Struble played on his off-side in the past?
I have little doubt he's making the team, was a bit surprised to see you slot him in on the right though.
The other possibility is Hutson ends up on the right - I've heard some people theorize that for highly mobile dmen who end up all over the ice, it's less important which side they line up on.
I could actually see Hutson look good on his offside. im not usually a fan of it - and honestly i dont like Guhle there, even though we're lacking options. I would toy with the idea of: Matheson - Savard Guhle - Hutson Because i think Guhle is much better positionally at LHD and i think Hutson may be ok on his offside. I doubt they play two young players together on our 2nd pair, even if it means our top pair could theoretically handle harder matchups this way. |
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Post by graeme on Oct 7, 2024 0:04:20 GMT
Has Struble played on his off-side in the past?
I have little doubt he's making the team, was a bit surprised to see you slot him in on the right though.
The other possibility is Hutson ends up on the right - I've heard some people theorize that for highly mobile dmen who end up all over the ice, it's less important which side they line up on.
I could actually see Hutson look good on his offside. im not usually a fan of it - and honestly i dont like Guhle there, even though we're lacking options. I would toy with the idea of: Matheson - Savard Guhle - Hutson Because i think Guhle is much better positionally at LHD and i think Hutson may be ok on his offside. I doubt they play two young players together on our 2nd pair, even if it means our top pair could theoretically handle harder matchups this way. If Hutson is comfortable on the right it would be helpful to get Guhle back on his natural side . And with Reinbacher's development likely set back by a year (best-case) our RHD depth could get worse before it gets better
(I'm also guessing Reinbacher's injury means it's less likely we trade Savard this season, although if the team is terrible and can get a first-rounder back at the deadline, they may have no choice).
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Post by BigTed3 on Oct 7, 2024 1:26:41 GMT
1. Hutson has made the team. They didn't rest him in the last exhbition game because they were planning on sending him to the minors. If anything, it tells you Matheson, Savard, and Hutson are their most valued defenders and will be in the top 4. Guhle only played to get back into shape after his surgery. Hutson will be starting the year next to Savard. Will there be games where Xhekaj or Struble rotate up to the 2nd pair? Probably. But Hutson gets first crack based on what we've seen.
2. None of Pezzetta, ABB, or Barron were put on waivers today by the 5PM deadline, so they will all be on the roster tomorrow. The question is whether ABB is a 14th forward or whether he and Pezz are both part of a top 13 and the younger guys didn't make it. Heineman, Kapanen, and Roy to a lesser extent are the guys on the bubble who didn't need waivers. It also tells us the Habs won't be sending down someone like Anderson the way they did to Armia last year.
So let's count the forwards we know have made the team:
- Suzuki, CC, and Slaf are almost guranteed to be line 1
- Dach and Newhook are likely on line 2
- Anderson, Gallagher, Evans, Armia, and Dvorak are in the bottom 6
- Pezz and ABB are on the roster
That's 12. So Roy, Heineman, and Kapanen are fighting for 1 or 2 spots.
On D, we know Matheson, Savard, and Barron have made the team. We know Guhle won't be sent down and we know the same is likely true of Xhekaj. So that's 5. That leaves 2 or 3 spots for Struble, Hutson, Mailloux, and Engstrom. As I said above, Hutson has almost certainly made the team, and I'd frankly be surprised if Struble doesn't make it too. I think Engstrom will start in Laval. So the only guy on the bubble here for me is Mailloux, and the question is whether the Habs carry 8 D or a 14th forward. So it's Roy, Kapanen, Heineman, and Mailloux for 2 spots. This could go any which way, but my own belief is that Roy stays given his experience last year and that Mailloux goes down because there's little value in his being a 7th or 8th D man. He may as well get minutes in Laval, especially with Reinbacher not being there on the right side. The last spot could thus go to Kapanen or Heineman. Again, it could be either one. I think the Laine injury opens the door to keeping Kapanen to start the year and then sending him back if Laine returns and Kapanen isn't ready. There's more opportunity to change your mind if you keep Kapanen. If you keep Heineman, Kapanen is gone for the season. If we were trying to compete, that could be important. But in a year we're not going to win, I have to feel the Habs will ask what move is best for each player's development. Heineman has spent time in Laval already. He has less to gain by returning there, and the Habs have to make a decision sooner in his case before he ends up needing waivers. So I think there's more to gain for them as an organization to retain Heineman and see what he can do. But what do I know... as I said, I could make an argument for each guy. I think that's really the last decision that's left to be made though, and I think much of the rest should play out as I detailed above.
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Post by claremont on Oct 7, 2024 13:37:14 GMT
1. Hutson has made the team. They didn't rest him in the last exhbition game because they were planning on sending him to the minors. If anything, it tells you Matheson, Savard, and Hutson are their most valued defenders and will be in the top 4. Guhle only played to get back into shape after his surgery. Hutson will be starting the year next to Savard. Will there be games where Xhekaj or Struble rotate up to the 2nd pair? Probably. But Hutson gets first crack based on what we've seen. 2. None of Pezzetta, ABB, or Barron were put on waivers today by the 5PM deadline, so they will all be on the roster tomorrow. The question is whether ABB is a 14th forward or whether he and Pezz are both part of a top 13 and the younger guys didn't make it. Heineman, Kapanen, and Roy to a lesser extent are the guys on the bubble who didn't need waivers. It also tells us the Habs won't be sending down someone like Anderson the way they did to Armia last year. So let's count the forwards we know have made the team: - Suzuki, CC, and Slaf are almost guranteed to be line 1 - Dach and Newhook are likely on line 2 - Anderson, Gallagher, Evans, Armia, and Dvorak are in the bottom 6 - Pezz and ABB are on the roster That's 12. So Roy, Heineman, and Kapanen are fighting for 1 or 2 spots. On D, we know Matheson, Savard, and Barron have made the team. We know Guhle won't be sent down and we know the same is likely true of Xhekaj. So that's 5. That leaves 2 or 3 spots for Struble, Hutson, Mailloux, and Engstrom. As I said above, Hutson has almost certainly made the team, and I'd frankly be surprised if Struble doesn't make it too. I think Engstrom will start in Laval. So the only guy on the bubble here for me is Mailloux, and the question is whether the Habs carry 8 D or a 14th forward. So it's Roy, Kapanen, Heineman, and Mailloux for 2 spots. This could go any which way, but my own belief is that Roy stays given his experience last year and that Mailloux goes down because there's little value in his being a 7th or 8th D man. He may as well get minutes in Laval, especially with Reinbacher not being there on the right side. The last spot could thus go to Kapanen or Heineman. Again, it could be either one. I think the Laine injury opens the door to keeping Kapanen to start the year and then sending him back if Laine returns and Kapanen isn't ready. There's more opportunity to change your mind if you keep Kapanen. If you keep Heineman, Kapanen is gone for the season. If we were trying to compete, that could be important. But in a year we're not going to win, I have to feel the Habs will ask what move is best for each player's development. Heineman has spent time in Laval already. He has less to gain by returning there, and the Habs have to make a decision sooner in his case before he ends up needing waivers. So I think there's more to gain for them as an organization to retain Heineman and see what he can do. But what do I know... as I said, I could make an argument for each guy. I think that's really the last decision that's left to be made though, and I think much of the rest should play out as I detailed above. Largely agree. I don't see value in keeping Mailloux up as an 8th D-man. He needs big RHD minutes in Laval, and Pascal Vincent may be more effective in Laval development for him vs. last year's Houle. I still believe Mailloux is one of our RHD men in waiting until Savard is moved, an injury occurs, or Barron possibly falters and Mailloux's star starts to rise. He needs to be taught effective defense in his own zone but he has a lot of good attributes, size, skating shot. I am pleasantly surprised by Struble - I have said for a long time that I thought he had a pro style game during his less than impressive NCAA years at Boston U., when everyone was panning him. Struble makes the team. Roy did not impress me much during the pre-season on his drive / engagement - I can project arguments for moreso for Roy and Kapanen. 1) Roy has experience, plays bigger than Kapanen 2) Kapanen can cover centre providing depth for Newhook or Evans but so can ABB. Better to keep Kapanen and control his development here vs trusting his Swedish club. If Kapanen is kept and outplays ABB over a longer stint, does ABB get waived. Heineman has a reasonable body of work at Laval but he is still waivers exempt. I suspect he is a victim of the numbers game, besides Owen Beck in Laval needs someone he can dish the puck to beyond a Mesar etc. I see Heineman as almost next man up as we know there will be some injuries. I don't foresee RHP here for long, and Heineman may fill Armia's shoes at some later point. |
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Post by BigTed3 on Oct 7, 2024 14:35:40 GMT
Kapane, Heineman, ABB, and Pezzetta all at practice this AM.
Therapy day for Struble.
No word on Mailloux or Roy yet.
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Post by jenniferrocket on Oct 7, 2024 15:07:11 GMT
Apparently Mailloux, Engstrom, Dobes, and Roy have all been sent to Laval.
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regis
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Post by regis on Oct 7, 2024 15:13:54 GMT
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Post by BigTed3 on Oct 7, 2024 15:38:20 GMT
Didn't think the Habs would send Roy down after his play last year. It's true that Kapanen (by a wide margin) and Heineman (by a smaller margin) outplayed Roy this camp, but typically the Habs stick with what they know, and I would have thought Roy would have had a longer leash to play some regular season games first. Oh well. Lines at practice today were
CC-Suzuki-Slaf
Newhook-Dach-Armia
ABB-Dvorak-Anderson
Heineman-Evans-Gallagher
Not sure I love the set-up of the bottom 6. Lots of dead weight there. ABB and Anderson are both guys who have a lot of trouble finishing their chances, so that seems like a line that isn't stellar defensively AND won't provide a lot of scoring. Would rather have seen Kapanen in the starting 12 over ABB or even Anderson. I think there will be some shuffling of these lines before too long.
On D, no surprises with the top 4, with Hutson next to Savard. Xhekaj-Barron is the 3rd pairing for now, but Struble took a day off, so hard to know if that will be the same come opening day. Would suspect Xhekaj plays against Toronto given the pre-season shenanigans between the two clubs. I'd prefer to have Struble in over Barron, but we'll see.
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Post by jenniferrocket on Oct 7, 2024 15:48:25 GMT
I don't mind those lines with the exception of Anderson being slotted in. I'm just no longer an Anderson fan and wish we traded him years ago. He feels like the most dead-weight of all the possible dead-weight on the roster. D pairings make sense. But yeah, I could see Struble in if he's healthy.
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regis
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Post by regis on Oct 7, 2024 16:07:40 GMT
Bottom six is 💩 like last year but I gotta give them a chance. , maybe the new guys will refresh them
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Post by graeme on Oct 7, 2024 16:54:32 GMT
Didn't think the Habs would send Roy down after his play last year. It's true that Kapanen (by a wide margin) and Heineman (by a smaller margin) outplayed Roy this camp, but typically the Habs stick with what they know, and I would have thought Roy would have had a longer leash to play some regular season games first. Oh well. Lines at practice today were CC-Suzuki-Slaf Newhook-Dach-Armia ABB-Dvorak-Anderson Heineman-Evans-Gallagher Not sure I love the set-up of the bottom 6. Lots of dead weight there. ABB and Anderson are both guys who have a lot of trouble finishing their chances, so that seems like a line that isn't stellar defensively AND won't provide a lot of scoring. Would rather have seen Kapanen in the starting 12 over ABB or even Anderson. I think there will be some shuffling of these lines before too long. On D, no surprises with the top 4, with Hutson next to Savard. Xhekaj-Barron is the 3rd pairing for now, but Struble took a day off, so hard to know if that will be the same come opening day. Would suspect Xhekaj plays against Toronto given the pre-season shenanigans between the two clubs. I'd prefer to have Struble in over Barron, but we'll see. Also surprised about Roy - I figured after last season he was more or less a lock to make the team.
Also surprised to see Kapanen apparently make the roster but presumably in the press-box for game 1 while ABB looks to be in the starting roster (figured him and Pez would be the initial scratches).
Glad to see Heineman make it - he has a chance to be a long-term bottom-six option so will be good to see what he can do at the NHL level - it's possible he's out of the league within a couple years, but he apparently had a good camp and it will be good to see what we have. That fourth line looks like it should be fine. But ya that third line could be a disaster and that second line is pretty iffy without Laine (when Armia is on the second-line, it's not a great sign).
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Post by maasart on Oct 7, 2024 17:01:30 GMT
Didn't think the Habs would send Roy down after his play last year. It's true that Kapanen (by a wide margin) and Heineman (by a smaller margin) outplayed Roy this camp, but typically the Habs stick with what they know, and I would have thought Roy would have had a longer leash to play some regular season games first. Oh well. Lines at practice today were CC-Suzuki-Slaf Newhook-Dach-Armia ABB-Dvorak-Anderson Heineman-Evans-Gallagher Not sure I love the set-up of the bottom 6. Lots of dead weight there. ABB and Anderson are both guys who have a lot of trouble finishing their chances, so that seems like a line that isn't stellar defensively AND won't provide a lot of scoring. Would rather have seen Kapanen in the starting 12 over ABB or even Anderson. I think there will be some shuffling of these lines before too long. On D, no surprises with the top 4, with Hutson next to Savard. Xhekaj-Barron is the 3rd pairing for now, but Struble took a day off, so hard to know if that will be the same come opening day. Would suspect Xhekaj plays against Toronto given the pre-season shenanigans between the two clubs. I'd prefer to have Struble in over Barron, but we'll see. Also surprised about Roy - I figured after last season he was more or less a lock to make the team.
Also surprised to see Kapanen apparently make the roster but presumably in the press-box for game 1 while ABB looks to be in the starting roster (figured him and Pez would be the initial scratches).
Glad to see Heineman make it - he has a chance to be a long-term bottom-six option so will be good to see what he can do at the NHL level - it's possible he's out of the league within a couple years, but he apparently had a good camp and it will be good to see what we have. That fourth line looks like it should be fine. But ya that third line could be a disaster and that second line is pretty iffy without Laine (when Armia is on the second-line, it's not a great sign).
agree with this - these were surprises to me too. Ever since the game we lose Laine and Reinbacher MSL has been dressing roster players very sparingly. I wonder if he wants to give a guy like ABB a chance to play with the full roster - and also let a guy like Kapanen watch from the press box - giving him a different view of the actual NHL game. Will be interesting to see what this roster looks like in say, 1-2 weeks & if anyone else is sent down. |
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Post by HRF on Oct 7, 2024 20:29:47 GMT
I don't mind those lines with the exception of Anderson being slotted in. I'm just no longer an Anderson fan and wish we traded him years ago. He feels like the most dead-weight of all the possible dead-weight on the roster. D pairings make sense. But yeah, I could see Struble in if he's healthy. Agreed he is dead weight. Coaches & mgmt. like him though. |
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Post by claremont on Oct 7, 2024 22:05:44 GMT
Didn't think the Habs would send Roy down after his play last year. It's true that Kapanen (by a wide margin) and Heineman (by a smaller margin) outplayed Roy this camp, but typically the Habs stick with what they know, and I would have thought Roy would have had a longer leash to play some regular season games first. Oh well. Lines at practice today were CC-Suzuki-Slaf Newhook-Dach-Armia ABB-Dvorak-Anderson Heineman-Evans-Gallagher Not sure I love the set-up of the bottom 6. Lots of dead weight there. ABB and Anderson are both guys who have a lot of trouble finishing their chances, so that seems like a line that isn't stellar defensively AND won't provide a lot of scoring. Would rather have seen Kapanen in the starting 12 over ABB or even Anderson. I think there will be some shuffling of these lines before too long. On D, no surprises with the top 4, with Hutson next to Savard. Xhekaj-Barron is the 3rd pairing for now, but Struble took a day off, so hard to know if that will be the same come opening day. Would suspect Xhekaj plays against Toronto given the pre-season shenanigans between the two clubs. I'd prefer to have Struble in over Barron, but we'll see. Also surprised about Roy - I figured after last season he was more or less a lock to make the team.
Also surprised to see Kapanen apparently make the roster but presumably in the press-box for game 1 while ABB looks to be in the starting roster (figured him and Pez would be the initial scratches).
Glad to see Heineman make it - he has a chance to be a long-term bottom-six option so will be good to see what he can do at the NHL level - it's possible he's out of the league within a couple years, but he apparently had a good camp and it will be good to see what we have. That fourth line looks like it should be fine. But ya that third line could be a disaster and that second line is pretty iffy without Laine (when Armia is on the second-line, it's not a great sign).
Interesting decisions - I am happy that they kept Kapanen for a longer look, and more control over his development vs. sending him back to Sweden and possibly risking Norlinder Part Deux where Norlinder just stalled over there. Not too surprised on Roy as he just seemed to float his motor and many times needed better players around him as a supporting cast. Seemed during camp as to whether he really made his playing partners better. Heineman has some tools in his toolbox - I bet he gets a good long look vs. bringing up Roy. I hope he gets more chances than what Ylonen had. A Healthy Dvorak did not look terrible in the pre season games I watched but our ability to compete will hinge a lot on whether he and Anderson can elevate their games. Barron - it's a put up or shaddup year for him. I suspect with Hutson rising up that Barron may not see much 2nd unit PP time, which may be a good thing. I can't see Struble getting 2nd unit PP time, and I am not that confident that Struble is strong enough to play the RHD side vs. his natural left. |
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regis
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Post by regis on Oct 8, 2024 14:02:49 GMT
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Post by BigTed3 on Oct 8, 2024 22:52:18 GMT
Struble day to day upper body injury but FWIW, he and Xhekaj were lined up as the 3rd pairing in today's practice. Suggests that Barron will start the year as the 7th D man.
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Post by BigTed3 on Oct 9, 2024 12:04:33 GMT
Thought I'd take a look at where we are on opening day and where I expect us to be later in the season... on D, this is where we'll start
Matheson-Guhle
Hutson-Savard
Xhekaj-Struble
Barron
Now Struble won't play tonight because of injury, but based on practice pairings, he's in the top 6 and Barron, despite being one of only two righties in the group of 7, is not. That doesn't say a lot for Barron. It also doesn't say a lot for Mailloux, who couldn't beat out Struble, Hutson, Guhle, or Xhekaj for a spot either (none of those players needed waivers). So that's where we are today. What will happen over the course of the season? We'll undoubtedly have injuries, and I'd expect all of Mailloux, Engstrom, and Trudeau to be on the shortlist for recalls this year. But what's evident is that this organization remains remarkably short on RHD. Reinbacher is out and while it's very early in his career, his ability to become a top pairing D man is still questionable. Mailloux appears to be more of an offensive specialist thus far. Barron is hanging on to his NHL career by a thread. Savard may be on his way out by season's end, given his impending UFA status. So it's hard to know where this right side will go, but I don't have a ton of confidence in anyone currently in the organization to be honest. Playing Guhle, Struble, and other lefties on the right side isn't a great longterm answer either.
Despite the shortage, I do expect Savard to be traded this year. The Habs don't look like they'll be in the mix come the trade deadline, and Savard's value won't be any higher down the line if we were to re-sign him. This is the year to ship him out before he loses value like Edmundson. It seems likely that Mailloux takes over that right-handed spot once Savard goes. I'm not sure I expect much more to happen this year, but I think you'd almost have to expect 1-2 of these LHD to be gone next off-season too. Hutson's continued emergence gives him a spot. Struble, Xhekaj, Guhle, and Engstrom can't all be here longterm. So the Habs need to make a decision on who to keep. I wouldn't be surprised to see Barron turfed out after this year the way Kovacevic was, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of Xhekaj or Guhle is dealt for help elsewhere (either a RHD or a forward). So my guess on what we see to end this season is
Matheson-Barron
Hutson-Guhle
Xhekaj-Mailloux
Struble
and my guess as to what we see to start 2025-26 is along the lines of
Matheson-Guhle
Hutson-Reinbacher (or another RHD we trade for)
Struble-Mailloux
Engstrom
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