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Post by BigTed3 on Oct 30, 2024 21:06:31 GMT
Well well! changes in the lineup today! Heineman is up with Nick and CC, Slaff is on a line with Dach and Kapanen and Newhook is down with Armia and Dvo. This could work out and I have wanted to see them try these guys in better spots for a while now! Newhook should sit a game or two in my opinion but whatever. It's a start but I'd prefer to see them split up CC and Suzuki and place Cole with Dach. I like giving Heineman a shot with Suzuki, but I'd maybe keep Slaf on that line too (or else put Gallagher there and Slaf with CC and Dach). But for example...
Heineman-Suzuki-Slafkovsky Caufield-Dach-Gallagher Newhook-Kapanen-Armia Dvorak-Evans-Anderson
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Post by maasart on Oct 30, 2024 21:40:35 GMT
Well well! changes in the lineup today! Heineman is up with Nick and CC, Slaff is on a line with Dach and Kapanen and Newhook is down with Armia and Dvo. This could work out and I have wanted to see them try these guys in better spots for a while now! Newhook should sit a game or two in my opinion but whatever. It's a start but I'd prefer to see them split up CC and Suzuki and place Cole with Dach. I like giving Heineman a shot with Suzuki, but I'd maybe keep Slaf on that line too (or else put Gallagher there and Slaf with CC and Dach). But for example...
Heineman-Suzuki-Slafkovsky Caufield-Dach-Gallagher Newhook-Kapanen-Armia Dvorak-Evans-Anderson
Agree. Its good they finally realized playing 3 guys together and 1 guy on his own wont work and that Newhook is much better as a 3rd liner than a 2nd. I Like your lines more (we talked about Dach/CC and Nick/Slaf as being the better option) but i think MSL sees Nick as our best centre (he is) and wants CC to have all the chances as a little guy who reminds him of himself. Id still love to try Gallagher-Newhook-Armia again because that was not only a good line in its own right, it made 3 relatively unproductive players productive, together. |
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Post by claremont on Oct 30, 2024 21:44:08 GMT
LM sent back to Laval. Guhle must be ready to go. Logan needs minutes and Laval needs support. Barron is close to returning just like Guhle. My belief is Barron is on trial while Mailloux continues to develop and one of them will fill Savard’s spot when Savy is likely traded. We still need a solid top RHD. I’d love to see a trade for Brandt Clarke (I can dream but LA has little depth there while Doughty recovers from injury), or Nemec ( who won’t play big minutes with Hamilton and Pesce in front of him). I’m not sure Nemec is a top pairing D man. That trade is also highly improbable. |
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regis
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Post by regis on Oct 30, 2024 22:14:32 GMT
The issue with acquiring a solid top pairing RHD is that teams that have one , aren’t trading them away .
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Oct 30, 2024 22:25:14 GMT
LM sent back to Laval. Guhle must be ready to go. I guess wifi is going to be a healthy scratch |
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Post by maasart on Oct 30, 2024 22:48:14 GMT
The issue with acquiring a solid top pairing RHD is that teams that have one , aren’t trading them away . For sure. The only ones who might have one that fits the bill (ideally under 26) most likely want to keep him - or - would consider moving him for a quality player now... so unless Hughes is willing to move one of our core players, this seems unlikely. |
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Post by ramcharger440 on Oct 30, 2024 22:49:51 GMT
The issue with acquiring a solid top pairing RHD is that teams that have one , aren’t trading them away . Trades are hard........ |
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regis
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Oct 30, 2024 23:10:41 GMT
The issue with acquiring a solid top pairing RHD is that teams that have one , aren’t trading them away . Trades are hard........ You want a top pairing RHD We want a top pairing forward Are CC and Slafkovsky available ? no Bye 👋 |
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Post by ramcharger440 on Oct 30, 2024 23:51:54 GMT
You want a top pairing RHD We want a top pairing forward Are CC and Slafkovsky available ? no Bye 👋 Yep hard. |
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Oct 31, 2024 0:19:09 GMT
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Post by BigTed3 on Oct 31, 2024 2:33:16 GMT
You want a top pairing RHD We want a top pairing forward Are CC and Slafkovsky available ? no Bye 👋
There are various ways to make trades work and go after quality players:
1. You trade for a younger player who hasn't quite established himself as a top 4 guy yet. We did this to some degree getting Jeff Petry before he hit his prime. We also did this acquiring Nick Suzuki before he made the NHL.
2. You trade for a position you want by giving up something equal at a position you are stronger at. We did this to some degree trading Jordan Harris for Patrik Laine or givng up Sergachev to acquire Drouin. Value for value (this is not a comment on whether those trades worked for us, just how the framework played out).
3. You trade for a more etablished player by giving up futures or younger players to an organization that wants to re-build or get younger. We did this by trading Balej for Kovalev, for example.
4. You trade one strong player for another strong player at the same position and just hope that the fit is better. We did this trading Subban for Weber, for example, or Galchenyuk for Domi.
5. You try to find a guy whose value is low because of an extraneous factor (doesn't get along with his coach, has an off-ice issue, has a bad contract, etc.). We did this in acquiring Sean Monahan, for example, capitalizing on the Flames need to get cap space ASAP.
The problem right now is timing. Trades are easier to make in the off-season or in the second half of the year, when teams know if they're competitive or not. Right now, everyone still thinks they can play and wants to keep their rosters together, so it's not the right moment to go after another team's core in exchange for futures. You would probably need to find a team that is overloaded at RHD or that has a significant injury at another position whereby they're desperate to fix that and willing to move from a RHD, or else you need to make a straight-up hockey trade.
So who is expendable for me? Newhook IMO should be a prime candidate to trade. He's a middle 6 player but he has some value and he's young enough. I think we can replace him down the line. Mailloux and Barron are also players I'd be willing to part with to get a different young RHD back. And I still think there's room to trade a LHD. Guhle can move back to his natural side if you acquire a RHD, so it frankly makes one of Matheson or Xhekaj expendable. I don't get all the chatter about trading Xhekaj and the return would have to be strong, but Matheson is a player I think you can still try to sell high on. Past that, we have a collection of picks and prospects we could dangle too. I think there could be a way to use some of those assets to go after a top 4 RHD...
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Post by habsology on Oct 31, 2024 13:53:55 GMT
The issue with acquiring a solid top pairing RHD is that teams that have one , aren’t trading them away . For sure. The only ones who might have one that fits the bill (ideally under 26) most likely want to keep him - or - would consider moving him for a quality player now... so unless Hughes is willing to move one of our core players, this seems unlikely. Remember when COL traded Owen Nolan (1st overall) for Sandis Ozolinsh? Those were the good 'ole days. |
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Post by claremont on Oct 31, 2024 14:15:37 GMT
You want a top pairing RHD We want a top pairing forward Are CC and Slafkovsky available ? no Bye 👋
There are various ways to make trades work and go after quality players:
1. You trade for a younger player who hasn't quite established himself as a top 4 guy yet. We did this to some degree getting Jeff Petry before he hit his prime. We also did this acquiring Nick Suzuki before he made the NHL.
2. You trade for a position you want by giving up something equal at a position you are stronger at. We did this to some degree trading Jordan Harris for Patrik Laine or givng up Sergachev to acquire Drouin. Value for value (this is not a comment on whether those trades worked for us, just how the framework played out).
3. You trade for a more etablished player by giving up futures or younger players to an organization that wants to re-build or get younger. We did this by trading Balej for Kovalev, for example.
4. You trade one strong player for another strong player at the same position and just hope that the fit is better. We did this trading Subban for Weber, for example, or Galchenyuk for Domi.
5. You try to find a guy whose value is low because of an extraneous factor (doesn't get along with his coach, has an off-ice issue, has a bad contract, etc.). We did this in acquiring Sean Monahan, for example, capitalizing on the Flames need to get cap space ASAP.
The problem right now is timing. Trades are easier to make in the off-season or in the second half of the year, when teams know if they're competitive or not. Right now, everyone still thinks they can play and wants to keep their rosters together, so it's not the right moment to go after another team's core in exchange for futures. You would probably need to find a team that is overloaded at RHD or that has a significant injury at another position whereby they're desperate to fix that and willing to move from a RHD, or else you need to make a straight-up hockey trade.
So who is expendable for me? Newhook IMO should be a prime candidate to trade. He's a middle 6 player but he has some value and he's young enough. I think we can replace him down the line. Mailloux and Barron are also players I'd be willing to part with to get a different young RHD back. And I still think there's room to trade a LHD. Guhle can move back to his natural side if you acquire a RHD, so it frankly makes one of Matheson or Xhekaj expendable. I don't get all the chatter about trading Xhekaj and the return would have to be strong, but Matheson is a player I think you can still try to sell high on. Past that, we have a collection of picks and prospects we could dangle too. I think there could be a way to use some of those assets to go after a top 4 RHD...
The other option that I am not certain HuGo want to wait for, is to make an RFA offer at the end of the season (by my own review there was nothing on the UFA tree). Dobson or Bouchard come to mind maybe Boqvist, but again we would be in an overpay situation thru either draft picks to which we have a wealth of (and good prospect depth but none of those are likely to be traded - assume Demidov, Hage, Beck off the table), or some roster players in a package. I have seen enough of Barron to concur he is expendable (though others may see it and he would not fetch much), but I am not certain I would give up on Mailloux's ceiling just yet. While Mailloux is unlikely to rise to 1/2 pairing, he could very well be a solid 3/4 pairing or even 5/6 if Reinbacher passes him on ability. While 5/6 pairing D are usually a dime a dozen, we just don't know how Reinbacher will develop. I would keep Mailloux as insurance. |
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Post by maasart on Oct 31, 2024 16:29:50 GMT
So who is expendable for me? Newhook IMO should be a prime candidate to trade. He's a middle 6 player but he has some value and he's young enough. I think we can replace him down the line. Mailloux and Barron are also players I'd be willing to part with to get a different young RHD back. And I still think there's room to trade a LHD. Guhle can move back to his natural side if you acquire a RHD, so it frankly makes one of Matheson or Xhekaj expendable. I don't get all the chatter about trading Xhekaj and the return would have to be strong, but Matheson is a player I think you can still try to sell high on. Past that, we have a collection of picks and prospects we could dangle too. I think there could be a way to use some of those assets to go after a top 4 RHD...
Agree. I wonder if Hughes would consider moving Newhook after just acquiring him a year ago but he doesnt strike me as a guy who digs in his heels when he knows he's made a mistake. I dont see a fit on our team unless he's going to be 3rd line centre. He doesnt jive with the rest of our top 6 and, frankly, Evans is a better all-round centre than Newhook. I like him but im just not sure there's a fit there. I could see him thrive with the right centre but not with Nick or Kirby. I dont see us moving Matheson unless we give up on this season. if we do that (probably January or later) then i think Matheson, Savard and others may be fair game. I do think our 2nd first rounder and some 2nds are probably in play too. It really probably all comes down to the next 10-15 games. If we can show we are more competitive then I see Hughes trying to make us better now, knowing that adding Laine probably will boost us too. If we stink up the bed like we did last game then I think Hughes will continue to dismantle some of our older players for one more year. |
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Post by BigTed3 on Nov 1, 2024 1:45:02 GMT
So who is expendable for me? Newhook IMO should be a prime candidate to trade. He's a middle 6 player but he has some value and he's young enough. I think we can replace him down the line. Mailloux and Barron are also players I'd be willing to part with to get a different young RHD back. And I still think there's room to trade a LHD. Guhle can move back to his natural side if you acquire a RHD, so it frankly makes one of Matheson or Xhekaj expendable. I don't get all the chatter about trading Xhekaj and the return would have to be strong, but Matheson is a player I think you can still try to sell high on. Past that, we have a collection of picks and prospects we could dangle too. I think there could be a way to use some of those assets to go after a top 4 RHD...
Agree. I wonder if Hughes would consider moving Newhook after just acquiring him a year ago but he doesnt strike me as a guy who digs in his heels when he knows he's made a mistake. I dont see a fit on our team unless he's going to be 3rd line centre. He doesnt jive with the rest of our top 6 and, frankly, Evans is a better all-round centre than Newhook. I like him but im just not sure there's a fit there. I could see him thrive with the right centre but not with Nick or Kirby. I dont see us moving Matheson unless we give up on this season. if we do that (probably January or later) then i think Matheson, Savard and others may be fair game. I do think our 2nd first rounder and some 2nds are probably in play too. It really probably all comes down to the next 10-15 games. If we can show we are more competitive then I see Hughes trying to make us better now, knowing that adding Laine probably will boost us too. If we stink up the bed like we did last game then I think Hughes will continue to dismantle some of our older players for one more year. Yeah, I don't see the reason to add right now. We have Laine coming back, we have Demidov coming next year and maybe Hage. We're not going anywhere even if we add a mid-tier player this season. So I don't think we should be making a panic trade. Also important to remember we have a fair number of vets on expiring contracts, so players like Savard, Dvorak, Evans, or Armia could be deadline fodder. If you're trying to add a vet to go for it, then it almost takes trading those guys off the table, which doesn't make a ton of sense.
As far as the roster, I don't see Newhook as part of the core. Didn't love the trade when we made it, but he's clearly part of the supporting cast here, just as he was in Colorado. Our core right now is Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky, Guhle, and Hutson. Players like Demidov, Hage, Beck, Kapanen, Xhekaj, etc. will have a chance to add themselves to that core going forward, but right now, the 6 guys I listed are the guys I imagine Hughes is trying to build around. He's not building around Newhook. Does he like the guy as a former client? Probably. Is he attached to him and will he hang on to guys like Newhook and Matheson too long because of it? Maybe. But I think those two guys are prime assets that you could trade to get something in return. Both still have decent value.
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Post by BigTed3 on Nov 1, 2024 1:57:19 GMT
The team looks quite lost right now. I imagine they're going to try to shake things up a bit. Barring a trade for a bottom 6 forward to bring some energy, they might well look at Laval. Barre-Boulet could be a recall for the bottom 6, and I'd have to think they're contemplating bringing Joshua Roy back up. Something needs to give in the top 6. Armia and Newhook aren't the answer there, and because we have no 2nd line, the rest of the line-up just doesn't fall into place. The Suzuki line gets tough match-ups because there simply isn't anyone else... I'll reiterate that they need to split up CC and Suzuki to change those match-ups, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see one of Heineman or Kapanen sent packing to make the shake-up work (not because they're necessarily the biggest offenders out there). Dvorak, for what it's worth, might have just played one of the worst games I've ever seen an NHL player play. It almost looked like he wants to be traded to Washington. Sad.
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Post by claremont on Nov 1, 2024 2:48:59 GMT
Yeah, I don't see the reason to add right now. We have Laine coming back, we have Demidov coming next year and maybe Hage. We're not going anywhere even if we add a mid-tier player this season. So I don't think we should be making a panic trade. Also important to remember we have a fair number of vets on expiring contracts, so players like Savard, Dvorak, Evans, or Armia could be deadline fodder. If you're trying to add a vet to go for it, then it almost takes trading those guys off the table, which doesn't make a ton of sense.
As far as the roster, I don't see Newhook as part of the core. Didn't love the trade when we made it, but he's clearly part of the supporting cast here, just as he was in Colorado. Our core right now is Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky, Guhle, and Hutson. Players like Demidov, Hage, Beck, Kapanen, Xhekaj, etc. will have a chance to add themselves to that core going forward, but right now, the 6 guys I listed are the guys I imagine Hughes is trying to build around. He's not building around Newhook. Does he like the guy as a former client? Probably. Is he attached to him and will he hang on to guys like Newhook and Matheson too long because of it? Maybe. But I think those two guys are prime assets that you could trade to get something in return. Both still have decent value.
On the Bold At some point Mgmt. should be making a trade - for me the question is timing on when, and I am not so certain you wait until Christmas break of Laine returning etc. You can't continue to foster a culture of losing and blow out losses with continuous mistakes, and simply say it's an acceptable part of the rebuild learning process. You have to protect your core youth from those bad habits, and some expectations / goals have to be met. We don't know the locker room vibes but if there are some vets that are going through the motions because they know they are not part of the future and the clock is ticking, then that drives some urgency. You probably sell low to remove that stench vs. hoping the liability becomes an asset. You singled out Dvorak, and I would add Armia to that mix. As an outsider, I see strong efforts and value from Evans and Savard so I give them a pass until later on. FWIW I was disappointed in Struble's attention in the Washington game, and I feel Xhekaj and Struble are going to rotate in various stretches to determine who can show more consistency. I certainly hope we can stay healthy and get longer looks at Barron and/or Mailloux within Laval. |
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Post by kinot3 on Nov 1, 2024 3:59:12 GMT
State of the Habs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,fragile.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 1, 2024 5:25:14 GMT
So when are we going to start playing
“ meaningful “ Games 🤷♂️
47 goals against in 11 games
Only Pittsburgh has allowed more.
49 In 12 games
So much for all the quality D prospects 🤦♂️
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Post by jenniferrocket on Nov 1, 2024 12:34:17 GMT
So when are we going to start playing “ meaningful “ Games 🤷♂️ 47 goals against in 11 games Only Pittsburgh has allowed more. 49 In 12 games So much for all the quality D prospects 🤦♂️ I do think we have quality D prospects, but maybe we missed on the expectations we should have on them (most are 23 or under). I think Guhle is a quality prospect. I think Hutson will have a long and successful NHL career. However... Xhekaj, Struble, Barron, Reinbacher, Engstrom, Mailloux, Konyushkov, etc. I think there are still many questions marks around these guys. Are any of them top-4 guys? No idea. |
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