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Post by BigTed3 on Nov 1, 2024 12:41:48 GMT
Yeah, I don't see the reason to add right now. We have Laine coming back, we have Demidov coming next year and maybe Hage. We're not going anywhere even if we add a mid-tier player this season. So I don't think we should be making a panic trade. Also important to remember we have a fair number of vets on expiring contracts, so players like Savard, Dvorak, Evans, or Armia could be deadline fodder. If you're trying to add a vet to go for it, then it almost takes trading those guys off the table, which doesn't make a ton of sense.
As far as the roster, I don't see Newhook as part of the core. Didn't love the trade when we made it, but he's clearly part of the supporting cast here, just as he was in Colorado. Our core right now is Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky, Guhle, and Hutson. Players like Demidov, Hage, Beck, Kapanen, Xhekaj, etc. will have a chance to add themselves to that core going forward, but right now, the 6 guys I listed are the guys I imagine Hughes is trying to build around. He's not building around Newhook. Does he like the guy as a former client? Probably. Is he attached to him and will he hang on to guys like Newhook and Matheson too long because of it? Maybe. But I think those two guys are prime assets that you could trade to get something in return. Both still have decent value.
On the Bold At some point Mgmt. should be making a trade - for me the question is timing on when, and I am not so certain you wait until Christmas break of Laine returning etc. You can't continue to foster a culture of losing and blow out losses with continuous mistakes, and simply say it's an acceptable part of the rebuild learning process. You have to protect your core youth from those bad habits, and some expectations / goals have to be met. We don't know the locker room vibes but if there are some vets that are going through the motions because they know they are not part of the future and the clock is ticking, then that drives some urgency. You probably sell low to remove that stench vs. hoping the liability becomes an asset. You singled out Dvorak, and I would add Armia to that mix. As an outsider, I see strong efforts and value from Evans and Savard so I give them a pass until later on. FWIW I was disappointed in Struble's attention in the Washington game, and I feel Xhekaj and Struble are going to rotate in various stretches to determine who can show more consistency. I certainly hope we can stay healthy and get longer looks at Barron and/or Mailloux within Laval.
But what are you trading for if you trade now? No one is giving up their best players for futures right now. You want to acquire another team's best players, you're either trading for them when they're younger and haven't hit prime (which doesn't necessarily help our immediate situation) or you're trading strength for strength. So as I outlined above, you could look at trading a Newhook or a Matheson to get a RHD. But does that make us more competitive this season or does that just set up our line-up better for the future? Any acquisition we make now is going to be with an eye for the future. We might be able to add an energy guy or bottom-half-of-the-lineup guy on the cheap, but no one is selling their best assets right now. Everyone wants to be competitive this early in the season and everyone is under the cap, so there's no impetus to try and move. Hughes tried to make his splash in the off-season with the Laine acquisition, and it didn't work out for reasons out of his control. On the back end, we're seeing how valuable Harris and Kovacevic really were to stabilizing the D corps. Without them, we have players like Barron (who needs waivers to go to Laval), Mailloux, and Xhekaj making bad reads and we have Savard struggling to start the year. We've been running 3 D men (Matheson, Hutson, and Guhle) big minutes to keep us afloat. I don't see an easy fix for this. Improvement will come as we graduate draft picks to the line-up (Hage, Demidov, Fowler, Reinbacher, Mailloux, Beck, etc.) and as our young guys gain experience, along with some top players recovering from injury (Laine coming back and Dach finding his form again). The worst thing we could do is panic and abandon our gameplan for an immediate transient boost.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 1, 2024 17:17:05 GMT
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Post by claremont on Nov 1, 2024 19:46:11 GMT
On the Bold At some point Mgmt. should be making a trade - for me the question is timing on when, and I am not so certain you wait until Christmas break of Laine returning etc. You can't continue to foster a culture of losing and blow out losses with continuous mistakes, and simply say it's an acceptable part of the rebuild learning process. You have to protect your core youth from those bad habits, and some expectations / goals have to be met. We don't know the locker room vibes but if there are some vets that are going through the motions because they know they are not part of the future and the clock is ticking, then that drives some urgency. You probably sell low to remove that stench vs. hoping the liability becomes an asset. You singled out Dvorak, and I would add Armia to that mix. As an outsider, I see strong efforts and value from Evans and Savard so I give them a pass until later on. FWIW I was disappointed in Struble's attention in the Washington game, and I feel Xhekaj and Struble are going to rotate in various stretches to determine who can show more consistency. I certainly hope we can stay healthy and get longer looks at Barron and/or Mailloux within Laval.
But what are you trading for if you trade now? No one is giving up their best players for futures right now. You want to acquire another team's best players, you're either trading for them when they're younger and haven't hit prime (which doesn't necessarily help our immediate situation) or you're trading strength for strength. So as I outlined above, you could look at trading a Newhook or a Matheson to get a RHD. But does that make us more competitive this season or does that just set up our line-up better for the future? Any acquisition we make now is going to be with an eye for the future. We might be able to add an energy guy or bottom-half-of-the-lineup guy on the cheap, but no one is selling their best assets right now. Everyone wants to be competitive this early in the season and everyone is under the cap, so there's no impetus to try and move. Hughes tried to make his splash in the off-season with the Laine acquisition, and it didn't work out for reasons out of his control. On the back end, we're seeing how valuable Harris and Kovacevic really were to stabilizing the D corps. Without them, we have players like Barron (who needs waivers to go to Laval), Mailloux, and Xhekaj making bad reads and we have Savard struggling to start the year. We've been running 3 D men (Matheson, Hutson, and Guhle) big minutes to keep us afloat. I don't see an easy fix for this. Improvement will come as we graduate draft picks to the line-up (Hage, Demidov, Fowler, Reinbacher, Mailloux, Beck, etc.) and as our young guys gain experience, along with some top players recovering from injury (Laine coming back and Dach finding his form again). The worst thing we could do is panic and abandon our gameplan for an immediate transient boost.
I acknowledge your point on the right now - Very unlikely we get any impact / best player from any team for immediate help. I choose to believe the youthful core can accept losing / mistakes, as long as there is sustained efforts from all teammates. My supplement to your post was more to the question if there is dead weight (Dvorak, Armia) and players that don't want to be here (The HuGo mantra of wanting players that want to be here), then actively look at jettisoning them now despite potential low returns. It may not be panic / game plan abandonment but a necessary culture fix was the point I was trying to address within your context. IMO barring a game breaker offer for a Noah Dobson / Nemec, we may have to settle for Vancouver and the prospect Tom Willander may be someone to watch with HuGo's Boston roots. Unfortunately Willander may not have the offensive game we want and is another year in development. We keep talking about the future so I bolded the statement that you made for emphasis. |
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Post by ramcharger440 on Nov 1, 2024 19:50:50 GMT
Bag skate today......LOL! love it.
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 1, 2024 20:48:27 GMT
So when are we going to start playing “ meaningful “ Games 🤷♂️ 47 goals against in 11 games Only Pittsburgh has allowed more. 49 In 12 games So much for all the quality D prospects 🤦♂️ I do think we have quality D prospects, but maybe we missed on the expectations we should have on them (most are 23 or under). I think Guhle is a quality prospect. I think Hutson will have a long and successful NHL career. However... Xhekaj, Struble, Barron, Reinbacher, Engstrom, Mailloux, Konyushkov, etc. I think there are still many questions marks around these guys. Are any of them top-4 guys? No idea. Matheson, Savard. 👉veterans , you know what you are getting guhle and Hutson young , up and coming everyone else on D is “ to be determined “…….nothing to get excited about the fact that wifi ( whom I do like ) is a healthy scratch , speaks for itself |
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 1, 2024 22:39:29 GMT
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Post by maasart on Nov 1, 2024 23:47:24 GMT
Dumont makes a great point in the comments of that article that MLS may be having issues because "It’s difficult for them to grasp their players can’t simply dominate by being a superior athlete, and that structure is important."
There's a reason why so many great coaches were fringe NHLers or minor leaguers. That's not to say Marty can't be an effective coach but he needs to understand that just because he tells the guys to do something it doesnt mean they will... or even can. The man-man system he is implementing now i am *sure* is based on the fact that we have a really fast, mobile defensive group. But if they cant understand it or wrap their head around how to play it effectively, its worthless. |
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Post by ramcharger440 on Nov 2, 2024 0:31:37 GMT
Dumont makes a great point in the comments of that article that MLS may be having issues because "It’s difficult for them to grasp their players can’t simply dominate by being a superior athlete, and that structure is important."
There's a reason why so many great coaches were fringe NHLers or minor leaguers. That's not to say Marty can't be an effective coach but he needs to understand that just because he tells the guys to do something it doesnt mean they will... or even can. The man-man system he is implementing now i am *sure* is based on the fact that we have a really fast, mobile defensive group. But if they cant understand it or wrap their head around how to play it effectively, its worthless. The other part of this is to my mind on a veteran team where everybody knows what the other guy is going to do it is much easier to implement our team is young and has a bit of a revolving door of players which makes it that much harder to implement! |
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Post by jenniferrocket on Nov 2, 2024 14:10:57 GMT
Second worst goal differential in the league (-15). Painful.
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Post by graeme on Nov 2, 2024 17:30:25 GMT
Dumont makes a great point in the comments of that article that MLS may be having issues because "It’s difficult for them to grasp their players can’t simply dominate by being a superior athlete, and that structure is important."
There's a reason why so many great coaches were fringe NHLers or minor leaguers. That's not to say Marty can't be an effective coach but he needs to understand that just because he tells the guys to do something it doesnt mean they will... or even can. The man-man system he is implementing now i am *sure* is based on the fact that we have a really fast, mobile defensive group. But if they cant understand it or wrap their head around how to play it effectively, its worthless. This is possible, but I don't know I buy the premise that MSL isn't trying to implement structure (the hybrid system is all about structure) or is just asking players to be superior athletes.
The hybrid system is confusing, but it's also not some crazy scheme MSL came up with, many teams including the current cup champions are using it and MSL believes (probably correctly) it's the future. A simple man-man system would almost certainly help the team right now, but the team is trying to build a cup contender, not the long-term bubble team we've had for most of the past few decades, so I understand sticking with it. We purposely traded two solid defenseman to create room for guys with higher-ceilings even if it meant more pain in the short-term, so I think it's important not to lose sight of that long-term vision.
The biggest problem right now isn't that the players aren't athletically gifted enough, it's some combination of mental mistakes and questionable compete. I do think MSL's style requires mental sharpness and I worry about some of our defense prospects who have solid athletic profiles but don't seem to process the game fast (notably Xhekaj, Barron, and Mailloux). But dumbing down the game plan to help them may just be a recipe for mediocrity. |
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 3, 2024 15:56:12 GMT
Tied for Last in the division with Buffalo but only 4 points from Toronto and 3 rd in the division
9 points
Tied with 5 other teams for 2 nd to last in the league
50 GA
Tied with 3 other teams for 2 nd most GA
33 GF
10 teams have scored fewer goals
-17
GF vs GA differential
Only SJ has a worse goal differential of -18
🤦♂️
Sorry to be Mr Negative but there’s nothing that can be done this year to turn this team into a playoff contender / bubble team .
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Post by BigTed3 on Nov 3, 2024 19:15:22 GMT
Tied for Last in the division with Buffalo but only 4 points from Toronto and 3 rd in the division 9 points Tied with 5 other teams for 2 nd to last in the league 50 GA Tied with 3 other teams for 2 nd most GA 33 GF 10 teams have scored fewer goals -17 GF vs GA differential Only SJ has a worse goal differential of -18 🤦♂️ Sorry to be Mr Negative but there’s nothing that can be done this year to turn this team into a playoff contender / bubble team . I mean I mostly agree that we weren't going to be a competitive team this year. I had us finishing below .500 and last in our division before the season started, so our record thus far doesn't really surprise me. That said, we haven't played as well as last year and there's certainly room for improvement in many facets. If I wanted to be an optimist here, I could argue that
- Laine will be back and potentially change the 2nd line and scoring depth drastically - Many players have had starts with significant room for improvement: Newhook, Dvorak, Dach, Slafkovsky, Savard, Xhekaj, Montembeault, Primeau, etc.
- There are a number of rookies (Hutson, Heineman, Kapanen, Mailloux) and younger guys who might also improve just by virtue of progression - I expect Joshua Roy will be recalled at some point and be an improvement on what we have now
Now will all these things go perfectly? No. But there is a lot of room for improvement here. If Monty and Primeau play .905 save percentage hockey, it's a game-changer. If we get 2-3 of our middle 6 forwards going, it's a game-changer. I still don't think they'll end up being a playoff team, but I do think they can be more competitive and that there's potential to do better than what we've done.
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Post by habsology on Nov 4, 2024 13:50:19 GMT
But what are you trading for if you trade now? No one is giving up their best players for futures right now. You want to acquire another team's best players, you're either trading for them when they're younger and haven't hit prime (which doesn't necessarily help our immediate situation) or you're trading strength for strength. So as I outlined above, you could look at trading a Newhook or a Matheson to get a RHD. But does that make us more competitive this season or does that just set up our line-up better for the future? Any acquisition we make now is going to be with an eye for the future. We might be able to add an energy guy or bottom-half-of-the-lineup guy on the cheap, but no one is selling their best assets right now. Everyone wants to be competitive this early in the season and everyone is under the cap, so there's no impetus to try and move. Hughes tried to make his splash in the off-season with the Laine acquisition, and it didn't work out for reasons out of his control. On the back end, we're seeing how valuable Harris and Kovacevic really were to stabilizing the D corps. Without them, we have players like Barron (who needs waivers to go to Laval), Mailloux, and Xhekaj making bad reads and we have Savard struggling to start the year. We've been running 3 D men (Matheson, Hutson, and Guhle) big minutes to keep us afloat. I don't see an easy fix for this. Improvement will come as we graduate draft picks to the line-up (Hage, Demidov, Fowler, Reinbacher, Mailloux, Beck, etc.) and as our young guys gain experience, along with some top players recovering from injury (Laine coming back and Dach finding his form again). The worst thing we could do is panic and abandon our gameplan for an immediate transient boost.
I acknowledge your point on the right now - Very unlikely we get any impact / best player from any team for immediate help. I choose to believe the youthful core can accept losing / mistakes, as long as there is sustained efforts from all teammates. My supplement to your post was more to the question if there is dead weight (Dvorak, Armia) and players that don't want to be here (The HuGo mantra of wanting players that want to be here), then actively look at jettisoning them now despite potential low returns. It may not be panic / game plan abandonment but a necessary culture fix was the point I was trying to address within your context. IMO barring a game breaker offer for a Noah Dobson / Nemec, we may have to settle for Vancouver and the prospect Tom Willander may be someone to watch with HuGo's Boston roots. Unfortunately Willander may not have the offensive game we want and is another year in development. We keep talking about the future so I bolded the statement that you made for emphasis. It's funny that you mention "settling" for Willander. At the draft, he was the D-man that I wanted over Rienbacher. The plus side would be that he already has played with Hutson, so there should be some previous chemistry there. |
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Post by maasart on Nov 4, 2024 17:45:14 GMT
I acknowledge your point on the right now - Very unlikely we get any impact / best player from any team for immediate help. I choose to believe the youthful core can accept losing / mistakes, as long as there is sustained efforts from all teammates. My supplement to your post was more to the question if there is dead weight (Dvorak, Armia) and players that don't want to be here (The HuGo mantra of wanting players that want to be here), then actively look at jettisoning them now despite potential low returns. It may not be panic / game plan abandonment but a necessary culture fix was the point I was trying to address within your context. IMO barring a game breaker offer for a Noah Dobson / Nemec, we may have to settle for Vancouver and the prospect Tom Willander may be someone to watch with HuGo's Boston roots. Unfortunately Willander may not have the offensive game we want and is another year in development. We keep talking about the future so I bolded the statement that you made for emphasis. It's funny that you mention "settling" for Willander. At the draft, he was the D-man that I wanted over Rienbacher. The plus side would be that he already has played with Hutson, so there should be some previous chemistry there. Yeah Id love to add Tom Willander. Im not sure what the cost would be. Having a RHD of Reinbacher, Willander, Mailloux and Barron (to complement our LHD of Hutson, Guhle, Struble and Xhekaj) would be very very exciting. Im guessing someone like Newhook + would have to go the other way tbh. |
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 4, 2024 23:32:54 GMT
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Post by maasart on Nov 4, 2024 23:53:26 GMT
Without being in the room its tough to know what the vibe is. The biggest concern that i think a lot of us have is that it looks like guys are not putting in effort but thats not always easy to identify. If thats not really the case & the players are putting in the effort, just not quite figuring out the system as well as their counterparts in Laval, then thats less of a concenr. The reality is that we've had 3 bad seasons. Most rebuilds are 4, 5, 6.... we're close but still not quite there. I think its a major reason why some fans are calling for a guy like Matheson to get shipped out for a top RHD prospect. It would make us worse right now but are we really likely to compete any time soon? |
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 5, 2024 1:05:02 GMT
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Post by jenniferrocket on Nov 5, 2024 13:27:21 GMT
Without being in the room its tough to know what the vibe is. The biggest concern that i think a lot of us have is that it looks like guys are not putting in effort but thats not always easy to identify. If thats not really the case & the players are putting in the effort, just not quite figuring out the system as well as their counterparts in Laval, then thats less of a concenr. The reality is that we've had 3 bad seasons. Most rebuilds are 4, 5, 6.... we're close but still not quite there. I think its a major reason why some fans are calling for a guy like Matheson to get shipped out for a top RHD prospect. It would make us worse right now but are we really likely to compete any time soon? Yeah, the games I have watched this season (earlier on) the team did look lazy. I haven't watched a ton this past couple of weeks, but I do believe the performances I have seen do look a little more energized. I don't see Matheson being moved until his last season. There's really no urgency to moving him now. I like him on the team. I'm sure the young guys do too. |
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 5, 2024 18:59:30 GMT
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regis
Le Gros Bill
Posts: 1,282
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Post by regis on Nov 5, 2024 19:33:46 GMT
Habs are ranked. 32 nd. On the TSN power rankings
Reason being 👉👇
They have Worst goal differential per game
Sit 30 th in expected goal differential
Rank 31st in
High danger chances against
Cycle chances against
Expected goals against
Goals against
Improvements are need on the defensive side of the game
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